Dealer questions before I buy

[mikeyw64]

They are one and the same.

No they're not

An ABS failure doesnt mean the brakes wnt work. In fact having an ABS fault /warning light on isn't an MOT failure (on a  motorcycle) as long as the brakes meet the  relevant efficiency tests.

[virginiajim]

One would need to change all the fluids especially fork.  Not sure I would trust the brake pads unless they've just been changed.  Battery (main) would be suspect.  Old bikes with lowish mileage I would steer away from unless you can do the work yourself....oh and tires, how long have they been on?  I'd do a lot of reading up on the 08's.  They're good rides, I have one, but it's been maintained, not washed much, but definitely maintained.

[Freddy]

No they're not

An ABS failure doesnt mean the brakes wont work. <snip

It does on a series 1 1400GTR with this particular failure.  I have first-hand experience.



In fact having an ABS fault /warning light on isn't an MOT failure (on a  motorcycle) as long as the brakes meet the  relevant efficiency tests.


That's utterly bizarre.  Such a bike would and should fail here

[wildybeast]

Like has been said.If your happy with the deal then go for it. mileage wise if properly maintained they go for ever. and your isnt high.Just get as much as you can out of the dealer.He wants to sell and needs turnover.

[mikeyw64]

It does on a series 1 1400GTR with this particular failure.  I have first-hand experience.



In fact having an ABS fault /warning light on isn't an MOT failure (on a  motorcycle) as long as the brakes meet the  relevant efficiency tests.


That's utterly bizarre.  Such a bike would and should fail here

The failure you described/experienced

"The pedal becomes rock-solid and r brake will not work at all, always happens upon first application of pedal after start-up if failed"

Is a Brake Failure and not an ABS system failure therefore the ABS Warning Light will not work.


And no it wouldn't pass its MOT with those symptoms as the rear brake efficiency would be below standard

[nightrider]

Price is about right from a dealer , its would be a £1000 less private , but that applies to any bike , best deal To be had is no px , like you say you look and they are all higher mileage for less money , I would sell 1050 for a selling price then armed with cash get the best one you can ,, if you sell 1050 in spring then you get best price , then buy gtr in Nov..Dec.. get great deal ,,if it was only so easy ,,,,

[Freddy]

The failure you described/experienced

"The pedal becomes rock-solid and r brake will not work at all, always happens upon first application of pedal after start-up if failed"

Is a Brake Failure and not an ABS system failure therefore the ABS Warning Light will not work.


And no it wouldn't pass its MOT with those symptoms as the rear brake efficiency would be below standard

Mike, have you had first-hand experience with this particular failure, diagnosed it, rectified it and reported it to Kawasaki and gov't vehicle safety regulators/monitors and got their response on it?  Or is your statement based on theory and general brake system knowledge, or what?  Just curious. 

[mikeyw64]

Mike, have you had first-hand experience with this particular failure, diagnosed it, rectified it and reported it to Kawasaki and gov't vehicle safety regulators/monitors and got their response on it?  Or is your statement based on theory and general brake system knowledge, or what?  Just curious.

No I haven't experienced this issue but its not a fault condition which would cause the ABS System Warning Light to trigger as its not a fault with the ABS system, it's a fault with the Braking System.


Fault Conditions that trigger an ABS Warning light (as from the service manual) are:

[Freddy]

   Yes Mike, I'm well aware of that.  Your logic is correct but the reality of the failure does not equate to the logic or what you show above.  The crux of the issue is that the warning system itself is also at fault because the rear brake failure is caused by code 13 and/or 14 faults BUT the warning lamp does NOT illuminate, CONTRARY to what's shown on that page of the service manual.  Kawasaki is aware of the warning system failure (which is even more serious than the brake failure itself) but are yet to do something about it as it's a small number of bikes that exhibit this failure.  To repeat, the warning system does not function as described.  BIG PROBLEM!  Kawasaki have replaced an even smaller number of ABS units free of charge so as to get the faulty units back for investigation.  Mine was one of the first they got back on this side of the world. 

Do a little searching and see what you turn up.   

[mikeyw64]

  Yes Mike, I'm well aware of that.  Your logic is correct but the reality of the failure does not equate to the logic or what you show above.  The crux of the issue is that the warning system itself is also at fault because the rear brake failure is caused by code 13 and/or 14 faults BUT the warning lamp does NOT illuminate, CONTRARY to what's shown on that page of the service manual.  Kawasaki is aware of the warning system failure (which is even more serious than the brake failure itself) but are yet to do something about it as it's a small number of bikes that exhibit this failure.  To repeat, the warning system does not function as described.  BIG PROBLEM!  Kawasaki have replaced an even smaller number of ABS units free of charge so as to get the faulty units back for investigation.  Mine was one of the first they got back on this side of the world. 

Do a little searching and see what you turn up.

Freddy

My comments were based on your statement

The pedal becomes rock-solid and r brake will not work at all, always happens upon first application of pedal after start-up if failed - ABS  warning lamp does not activate to inform rider of rear brake failure.

So the fault symptoms you described refer to a problem with the rear brake not operating due to the fluid not being changed regularly  and as you correctly stated if the rear caliper is seized/doesn't operate then the ABS light will *NOT* illuminate, Its not designed too.

Now the situation you've since described is slightly different, you seem to be saying that an ABS failure will cause the rear caliper to lock up solid.


That Said the recall on the Gen1s wasn't in relation to the ABS system, it was something more fundamental

(Search on Kawasaki ZG1400 at http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp )


--

Concern :   REAR BRAKE MAY FAIL
Description :   On eligible units of 1400 GTR and 1400GTR ABS models small stones or other road debris can become trapped between the rear brake pedal and guard and prevent the pedal from fully releasing. This can cause over heating potentially leading to rear brake damage and lock up or failure of the rear brake. On 14 GTR ABS models with K-ACT the front brake may also be affected because it is linked with rear brake operation.
--




As long as the brakes work correctly and efficiently then there is no reason not to continue riding even if the ABS light was lit (I rode my ST100 like this for 3 years due to some sensor failure, I just treated it as a Non ABS bike)

[Freddy]

Mike, the cause of the problem is not the caliper - it's the ABS unit.  Please do some research and post you findings. Or maybe some others will enlighten Mike as I'm getting nowhere.  But ignorance is bliss, they say.  Over & out.   

[mikeyw64]

Mike, the cause of the problem is not the caliper - it's the ABS unit.  Please do some research and post you findings. Or maybe some others will enlighten Mike as I'm getting nowhere.  But ignorance is bliss, they say.  Over & out.   

Freddy I'm not disagreeing with you that there have been a handful of cases (of which it appears you are one) where the rear brake has apparently locked up due to a ABS pump problem caused by poor/non existent flushing.

What I am saying though that as designed the ABS Warning Light will not come on in this scenario (whether or not it should is a different question) and also that the ABS System Warning light is not a generic Brake System Warning light

[big mike]

Although really informative info guys , any help on the bike would also be appreciated

[mikeyw64]

Although really informative info guys , any help on the bike would also be appreciated

As stated dealer price a bit high but thats dealers for you) , GTR1400s only sold in relatively low volumes over here, pretty much bulletproof (odd issues not withstanding such as weepy oil seal on the cam sensor, some potential brake issues as discussed), PITA to service given all the tupperware, make sure it has both key fobs as they cost an arm & a leg (its an early one so should have 2 bulky active fobs, later bikes have 1 bulky active & 1 slim passive, (both contain spare keys)

[doebag]

Make sure you get the owners handbook. It does not fit on the bike, so is easily overlooked.