After Riding a BMW GS - Why Does The C14 Handle So Poorly ?

[pistole]

Got the new BMW R1200GS (LC) about a week ago and within that time , have put on about 1,500 miles of a mix highway/backroads.

Have said it before and it maybe requires saying once again , this is an amazing bike. As a package , its by far the best mc i have ever had the privilege to ride.

now , the GTR : I have tried riding the GTR lately to warm up the bike , etc. And I can't ride it anymore.

Its like a fight with the bike trying to tip it into corners and then followed by a jig trying to keep the bike to a line. Its gotten to a point where its plain dangerous.

now , I used to be able to ride the GTR decently. Ie , can get the pegs down , little chicken strips , etc. She was never an easy handler , but maybe just got used to the heft. Have about 25K miles on her , mainly backroads , very little highways.

but now , the poor handling of the GTR simply shows so clearly now that I have something else to compare it with.

did anyone here experience something along such lines ? How did you resolve it ? If at all.

The reason I am asking is that if it remains like this , the GTR will have to be sold because its simply becoming dangerous to ride.

cheers

.

[Winston Smith]

You find that riding the GTR makes you 'ride the front end' - You tend to learn how to push the front end to steer due to the way it's set up.

The GS isn't so front end oriented and also has the tele/para lever (can never emember which one-lol) which helps keep the bike level through bends.

Learn (again) to counter steer more severely when on the GTR.

[pistole]

ah , was hoping that you'd pipe in.

ok , noticed that I had to be quite aggressive with c.steering to get the GTR's front end down.

.

[Winston Smith]

lol!  It was quite noticeable how front end biased the GTR was when we tested against the other big tourers. 

I like it, but other folk weren't so enamoured.

Makes it a sportier and more involved ride though!

[pistole]

ok ok , noted. Will try to muscle it more.

.

[O.C.]

You find that riding the GTR makes you 'ride the front end' - You tend to learn how to push the front end to steer due to the way it's set up.

The GS isn't so front end oriented and also has the tele/para lever (can never emember which one-lol) which helps keep the bike level through bends.

Learn (again) to counter steer more severely when on the GTR.

  also the GS is a more upright riding position with wider bars, so the sensation of riding the bike will be vastly different. I would also suggest that you have now got used to the GS as opposed to the GTR and so like any new bike/car it will feel the new 'norm'

Pistole also take into account that your GS weighs in at 238Kg against the GTRs hefty 312Kg, that equates to approximately 11.6 stones, which is similar to having a pillion on the GS 

I found the same scenario when I changed to a Versys 1000 from the GTR, although the Versys doesn't have tele/para lever front suspension

Its interesting to see the comparisons between bikes of different manufacture and how they are perceived by different riders, and good that we can discuss those facts sensibly on this forum, which in my humble opinion is what forums are about    

[pistole]

OC , definitely.

Am sure all here are adult enough to know that all bikes have their good/bad and there is no harm discussing them , even if this is a GTR forum.

Having said that , would like to hear from you about your views between your Versys 1000 vs the GTR ? The Versys 1000 shares the basic platform as the GS (upright rider on wide bars with a tall'ish bike).

Was the transition from the GTR to the Versys anything of a surprise ?

.

[O.C.]

OC , definitely.

Am sure all here are adult enough to know that all bikes have their good/bad and there is no harm discussing them , even if this is a GTR forum.

Having said that , would like to hear from you about your views between your Versys 1000 vs the GTR ? The Versys 1000 shares the basic platform as the GS (upright rider on wide bars with a tall'ish bike).

Was the transition from the GTR to the Versys anything of a surprise ?

.

I changed my GTR to the Versys 1000 because of health issues, and a lighter bike was an obvious option, the first thing I noticed after trying out the Versys was that it is a completely different animal, in short it has more bias towards an 'Adventure' bike and as such it met my needs (as we don't tour long range any more), as you know the GTR is perhaps more biased towards long distance touring, although I was more than happy to ride the GTR over many a small twisty moorland road. Interestingly the Big Versys is incredibly comfortable, in fact it's the most comfy bike I have ever owned, both for rider and pillion, plus it has panniers which provide plenty space for touring if required, with a 200+ mile tank range.

The engine of the Versys 1000 is actually an absolute peach, which pulls in 6th gear, extremely well from very low revs, it is simply an absolute joy to ride, of course the riding position is different to the GTR and takes a while to become familiar with, but that's no different to changing to any bike in my opinion.

I think its true that any biker will want to personalise his/her machine, it's what biking is about, and we all like to 'improve' our bikes by adding extras and changing screens, footpegs etc, the Versys is no different in that respect, and I'm aware that BMW offer a vast array of personalisation for their machines, if not directly from the manufacturer then from places such as Nippy Normans.

I loved my GTRs of which I had three over the years, and am still of the opinion that it is an outstanding and very under-rated machine, but my Versys 1000 suits my needs far, far better than the GTR, even though it does have some faults, namely the front suspension is a bit 'cheapish' it has no gear change indicator, the font size on the instrumentation is a little small. there's no span adjustment on the 'cable' clutch lever.........and a couple of other minor shortfalls, but I haven't yet found a production machine that perfectly matches every-ones individual requirements, and I guess I never will.

BUT ....WOW....the engine on the big Versys is just so, so good that its a pure joy to ride and exceptionally comfy too....would I buy another ? OH YES    I would do so in a heartbeat, I consider it to be that good......... and I'm looking forward to future model updates which may materialise for the 2015 model year.

I owned a 2010 pre-water cooled R1200 GS in 2011, and TBH whilst it was  a capable machine it just wasn't the bike for us so it was part exchanged for my last Green GTR   

[100milesaway]

OC , definitely.

Am sure all here are adult enough to know that all bikes have their good/bad and there is no harm discussing them , even if this is a GTR forum.

Having said that , would like to hear from you about your views between your Versys 1000 vs the GTR ? The Versys 1000 shares the basic platform as the GS (upright rider on wide bars with a tall'ish bike).

Was the transition from the GTR to the Versys anything of a surprise ?

.

Pistole, after owning both a GTR and a 1000 Versys, I think that I am well qualified to form a comparison between the two. First off as O C states there is a huge difference in weight, the Versys weighing in at there or there about the same as the BM, with the GTR a bit of a lump at over 300 kg. I used my GTR as a sports tourer, and after using one for 20,000 miles found the sports aspect of the bike a bit unfullfilling, I found that the GTR always wanted to be bullied if you wanted to ride in a sporty manner, and you could never get away from the bulk that it carried. Also the engine was a disapointment to me, for a 1400 cc engine I think it should have loads more low down grunt than it has, and is very fussy regarding what gear it is in, when overtaking on A/B roads I always had to use a lower gear than I really wanted, just to make sure that it was a safe overtake, the engine always felt a bit flat, there would be no such problem with say a ZZR1200, that bike would accelerate past slow moving traffic like a jet fighter and was never fussy regarding what gear you happened to be in. In regard to your question of a comparison with the big Versys, well my take on it is that the Versys has got a fantastic engine, which is almost equal to a ZZR1200, not a bit fussy regarding what gear you are using, and a rocket ship when overtaking. The Versys is also far more comfy than the GTR, both me and my good lady agree that it is by far the most comfy bike that we have ever owned, handling wise it would run rings around the GTR, simply because it hasn't the same bulk to haul around. The big V  has ABS brakes but unlike the GTR ( which never felt fully sorted ) are not linked. The Versys also has two power modes, and 3  levels of traction control + an option to switch the TC off. So all in all    for me     the big Versys will do everything that the GTR will do, mine came with full luggage, so no problem if you want to toddle off abroad, and is far better suited to the kind of motorcycling that I do. Whilst I enjoyed my miles on the GTR, the world has moved on, and the GTR has been left behind.   

[pistole]

Whilst I enjoyed my miles on the GTR, the world has moved on, and the GTR has been left behind

this bit jumped out at me. Totally agree.

the world has moved on.

To make an over 300 kgs machine is simply lazy on the part of the manufacturer. So much has gone forward as far as material and manufacturing tech that to justify making a 3XX kgs machine and selling it as a sports tourer is simply not on.

.

[zedmeister]

Pistole  -  you amaze me with your comments, from what i am reading YOU are the problem not the bikes  . Obviously you have not adapted to the different riding styles of both bikes,  How can you compare 300 kg bike with a 234kg  and totally different riding position as already stated. To say the GTR is Dangerous is quite silly, but in your defence you have stated you need to muscle it more. i am on my 4th GTR and it is the best bike i have ever rode, the power and low down grunt is excellent, i always have the correct gear for what ever manouvre i attempt, i never labour the engine and always keep it on song ( by thay i mean keeping the revs moderate 4-5k, not high revs) . I have a Ducati Monster for the blast with the boys and believe me a V Twin is a tempremental beast if not ridden corretly, my GTR riding style is totally out of the window when on the Monster at only 170KG.

However i totally agree with 'the world has moved on' comment, ( as much as it pains me to say it ) unless Mr K does something quickly to update the GTR i will be looking else where for my next touring bike purchase. 

[nightrider]

I took mine to Kai's suspension ,who do a ride in ride out service , the front end is now sorted with ohlins fork internals and revalve , it now goes a lot better in the braking part of a bend , you do have to muscle it round , I find a precise cornering method works best , also after a pipe and PC fitted it goes  more like my zzr12 did , also I love the inposeing looks of the bike it feels like you are aboard something special,,, I tried a bm twin but it felt flat ,   The versy looks to much like a blown up 650 , which is a great bike , but the gtr looks the part ,, at least with the extra weight you do not get blown all over the road as on zzr11-12  on a windy day , my mate has got a gs adventure one of the last models before the new one , and that feels massive and heavy,  ,,,,still a lottery win could solve these problems,,,,,,,,

[patrick]

the power and low down grunt is excellent, i always have the correct gear for what ever manouvre i attempt, i never labour the engine and always keep it on song ( by thay i mean keeping the revs moderate 4-5k, not high revs)

Totally agree on the use of gears and engine speed, and  at just under 5k rpm the cam timing is changing and the bike is then ready to quickly double it's road speed and that's more than enough for the overtake!

P

[SirToU]

I want to comment, but I wont.

Most modern bikes including the GTR, will do anything you want it to......  in most cases, its rider orientated - I'm not saying anyone is a bad rider......  its just that we are not "taught" how to ride a bike to "ride" a bike, We are taught to ride a bike to pass a test....

Neil

[shaggs147]

Agree with what you're saying there Sirtou. I took up biking relatively late in life, late 30's I guess. The Gtr is my fourth bike, but its the one I have had most confidence in to throw around the corners. I guess that's mainly due to gaining experience and putting more miles on the Gtr. I love the way it handles, to me it feels planted, and when it does squirm a little its all part of the fun as it never feels like it wants to let go.
I'm sure I'd probably feel the same way about the other bikes now if I were to ride them again due to experience gained.
I'm a firm believer that there's not many bad bikes or cars for that matter these days, just different ones, and you usually choose one on appearance, riding style and what you want to use it for. I chose the Gtr on its mile munching abilities, its looks, and the way you can throw it around on the twisties for such a big bike. I won't be looking for a replacement for a good while.