Wood burners and fireplace cast iron insert

[O.C.]

This is Asif Towers as he likes to call his humble residence. It's going to take some heating. 

well at least he'll have plenty trees to chop down on his estate 

[Kwikasfuki]

This is Asif Towers as he likes to call his humble residence. It's going to take some heating. 

I wish!

[Ros]

Hi Asif,

To get max heat out of it, and allow recuperation of hot air from around the chimney part, the "hotte", I don't know what this is in English is the enclosed space above the fire, but surrounding the metal chimney.  The air in there gets nice and hot and you can either use a convective circuit (vent in the top and vent in the bottom) or do what I did and force the air through it and distribute it around the place.  Some diagrams:




I don't know what norms you need to adhere to in the UK...

In terms of installation, you are probably looking at something like this:


The whole point is that the burning chamber is sealed from the room and is surrounded by a heating chamber where air heats up and is distributed into the room, either by convection or with an integrated fan.  Either way, to get more hot air out of the top part (the metal chimney going up to the roof) you should consider the "hotte" thing as described above.  You see, in the last diagram, there will be a lot of hot air wasted in the existing flue part...  It could require a bit of rebuilding depending on how your existing setup looks.  Worth it though, to get even more hot air out :)

Sorry for my total lack of English vocabulary and my worse-than-normal command of the Queen's English...  Speaking too much Italian and French this week...

Cheers

Ros

[Rusty]

Asif .. whatever you have good luck with your project.
I don't have one and never have done but I think they are a great addition to a house .. like an AGA .. the closest I had was an open fire in the lounge in our old house and I just loved it ... the smell of burning wood etc .. brilliant. 

[Kwikasfuki]

Wow Ros, thanks for that. Looks more techie that working with a motorbike!

Looks like you need a channel for hot and cold air for it to be efficient plus some fans. Before I get the wood burner, we're getting the windows replaced with new double glazing (old ones are crap). Hopefully that will make a difference to the heat retained in the house. After that, I can size the wood burner appropriately. Appears I must have a Defra approved one.

[Martin#30]

Asif,

We have had a wood burner in our 1700s cottage - it was already here since we moved in 14 years ago.

Don't get one to save money, as you won't. As an aesthetic, it is lovely. I really enjoy a real fire. But you won't save money from my experience.

Unless you go to the trouble of a proper, heat recovery system like Ros describes, huge amounts of heat are lost through the chimney. You will only ever heat one, possibly two rooms with it, so you still need the central heating. Don't forget the sheer PITA nature of them too, getting one going initally is significantly more than turning the heating on, and the clear-up of ash every couple of days too.

I am glad we have one, but I would not pay money to add one myself. It has been 3 or 4 years since we last used ours, despite a log store full of logs outside. Just never seems worth the hassle to me.

Martin.

[Ros]

Don't forget the sheer PITA nature of them too, getting one going initally is significantly more than turning the heating on, and the clear-up of ash every couple of days too.

If I had the money, I'd have bought something like this:

http://www.poeles-a-bois-en-ligne.com/insert-granules/1062-foyer-a-granules-ecoforest-eco-ii-insert-mini-anthracite-5450500205934.html

The expensive ones can be controlled with a timer with a schedule.  If used with a decent heat recuperation system, then could be interesting.

I have a couple of friends who have this type of system and they too kick out large quantities of heat.  From what I remember it works with en electrical ignition system, forced air (like a furnace) produces very little ash (burns more than 90% of the material) and you just fill 'er up with pellets every now and then.

I was up in the Trentino area the other day on business and popped into a cafe for a cappucino...  as you do... and they had one heating up 100M² of dining area.  -5°C outside, and about 30 inside.

Bloody brilliant :)

Anyway - back to work...

Cheers

Ros

[Kwikasfuki]

Asif,

We have had a wood burner in our 1700s cottage - it was already here since we moved in 14 years ago.

Don't get one to save money, as you won't. As an aesthetic, it is lovely. I really enjoy a real fire. But you won't save money from my experience.

Unless you go to the trouble of a proper, heat recovery system like Ros describes, huge amounts of heat are lost through the chimney. You will only ever heat one, possibly two rooms with it, so you still need the central heating. Don't forget the sheer PITA nature of them too, getting one going initally is significantly more than turning the heating on, and the clear-up of ash every couple of days too.

I am glad we have one, but I would not pay money to add one myself. It has been 3 or 4 years since we last used ours, despite a log store full of logs outside. Just never seems worth the hassle to me.

Martin.

Hi Martin (where did the #30 come from  )

Nice to read that you have good taste in property. Mine is built in 1801 and whilst a lovely home the heating costs are starting to  me off. Its like having a second mortgage.

I appreciate we won't be able to heat up all the house. Currently we only heat downstairs which is sufficient to keep upstairs warm as well. We have a few diseased trees that need coming down, and one of my distant neighbours has land with fallen trees. I reckon from the trees in my garden there's probably enough wood to heat the house for 3 - 4 years, and possibly 8 years worth from the neighbour (if he agrees).

Beginning of October to mid March we've spent approx £1500 quid on gas alone. As we're South facing I can't see there being much demand for summer so I'm hoping gas ends up costing us max £2200 and electric £800. If I can come in at £3k I'll be happy.

But next year I want the gas company to get f all off me if I can help it.

[Kwikasfuki]

If I had the money, I'd have bought something like this:

http://www.poeles-a-bois-en-ligne.com/insert-granules/1062-foyer-a-granules-ecoforest-eco-ii-insert-mini-anthracite-5450500205934.html

The expensive ones can be controlled with a timer with a schedule.  If used with a decent heat recuperation system, then could be interesting.

I have a couple of friends who have this type of system and they too kick out large quantities of heat.  From what I remember it works with en electrical ignition system, forced air (like a furnace) produces very little ash (burns more than 90% of the material) and you just fill 'er up with pellets every now and then.

I was up in the Trentino area the other day on business and popped into a cafe for a cappucino...  as you do... and they had one heating up 100M² of dining area.  -5°C outside, and about 30 inside.

Bloody brilliant :)

Anyway - back to work...

Cheers

Ros

How much does it consume pellet wise do you know?

[Ros]

I didn't know the answer to that one... But - I had a little look on the froggie websites and this is what I found:

For this kind of heater:

8Kw is OK for 80m²
12Kw is OK for 120m²
14Kw is OK for 140m²

Approximately...

Then, You can expect to use about 1Kg per hour of pellets
If you use 2000 to 2500 hours of heating per year, that's 2 or 3 tonnes of pellets per year.
You're using about 70 to 110 watts per hour...

I didn't check the maths, but that's what it said on one website I looked at.

For info, I was heating 65m² with nothing but a 12Kw insert fireplace and used up to 10 stere of wood a year (10 tonnes)

This type of heater is far more efficient.  Incidentally, my mate who has one says that it burns nearly everything - there is surprisingly little ash in the 'ash tray' even after some considerable usage.

Hope this helps.

The web page (in French) that I used for these figures is here:

http://www.poele-a-granule.fr/faq_poele_a_granule.php

Cheers

Ros

[Martin#30]

Hi Martin (where did the #30 come from  )

Asif,

It comes from the start of my mid life crisis, when at the age of 30 and with my eldest just born, I decided it would be the perfect time to start racing motorbikes. It was great fun whilst it lasted - i.e. common sense and parental responsibility caught up with me  . My 'old' forum username (MJJ_ZX6RR) made sense to me as it is my initials and my favourite race bike, but makes no sense to any other soul - thus thought I'd swap.

If you really do have access to that much wood, then maybe the woodburner is the way to go. If you are spending £1,500 a year on gas though, I cannot help thinking better insulation in the house, and/or a more efficient condensing gas boiler may be the better way to go. Wood burners are a monumental faff, great for the odd winter night in front of the fire, but not as a proper, everyday heat source.

Martin

[Kwikasfuki]

Insulating the house is a big task. So many drafts. I will be arming myself with caulk and insulating where I can.
Its not £1500 for the year, more likely to be around the 3k mark. I estimate 6k if we heated upstairs as well.