Note: This is how I did the procedure on my bike. It is presented here for informational purposes only.
The videos for bike maintenance (http://angelridevideos.com/concours.html) finally arrived here in the UK and I decided to grease the splines with Honda Moly 60 paste. (Side note, supplier said Honda no longer made Moly 60. Don't know if its true). My GTR has done 27000 miles and is ridden all year round, baring snow. There is an audible click when on the centre stand when the rear wheel is rotated. Note I said click, not clunk. Most who have an issue with the drive shaft can here a loud clunking sound.
This item is not covered by servicing and is known by the GTR community to be a common fault on the 1400 GTR.
With the video to hand the procedure was easy, but my bike didn't have the markers for lining up the boot. Not a big issue.
Have the bike in neutral. Put a bandage around the front brake and grip so that the front brake is on. There are two bolts that need to be removed. There is a 12mm allen bolt at the top, and a 27mm bolt at the bottom that needs a 14mm allen socket at the rear. The bottom bolt will be covered with black cap.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0169.jpg)
This is the 14mm allen at the rear. Suggest using a wrench with a long handle to get this off as it is a tough one to get off.
To get the top bolt off, an 8mm allen key and spanner should do the trick.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0175.jpg)
Loosen, not remove, both bolts first. The rubber boot also needs to be disengaged from the housing. Do this be gently pushing the boot down and back.
Care needs to be taken not to taken out the bolts will nilly as the rear of the housing will just drop. To remove the top boly, lift the housing up, and gently pull out the bolt. There is a spring in the spline that is pushing back continuously and once that top bolt is out, the rear housing will fall back so be prepared to hold it firmly and gently ease it to the ground. Then remove the bottom bolt. Gently remove the housing.
On the bottom bolt there are two spacers which you can see once the housing is removed. Recover these, clean them, and apply some grease to them.
Also note on the picture above the spline that attaches to the rear wheel. This also needs greasing.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0176.jpg)
Store the housing correctly, otherwise all oil will spill out.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0181.jpg)
Now onto the front of the drive shaft. Firstly remove the allen bolt supporting the gear lever. Note that there are two washers on this. When refitting you might want to grease this.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0171.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0182.jpg)
Once removed, there are five bolts that need to be removed. These will remove the plate alongside the foot rest. The bolt that screws into the subframe will need medium thread lock.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0170.jpg)
Now unscrew the bolt that removes the protective cover from the drive shaft.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0186.jpg)
There is metal coil covering the rubber boot that is also holding the cover in place. Get some pliers and prise open at the top, and remove the coil.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0185.jpg)
Remove the cover and this is what you're presented with:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0188.jpg)
The next step is to remove the assembly. Pushing back on the boot reveals the top of the spline. There is a small hole that can be seen though the spine that has a spring loaded mechanism pushing against it. The spline can be rotated by hand to view the hole. The bike needs to be in neutral. Have the hole as the top of the spine as there is a small spring in there. Don't want to be losing that!
Grab a small hair pin or screwdriver and push pin down. Make sure the hole is at the top. Whilst pushing down, gently pull back on the drive shaft and the whole assembly will come out. Remove from housing. Make sure the pin and spring haven't dropped.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0189.jpg)
This is what it looked like once removed:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0195.jpg)
Somehow water has managed to get in there and rust part of the shaft. I checked the joints for play and they seemed fine. I got a brush and cleaned of the rust best I could, and then put a layer of ACF50 on. (Next time I'll have a wire brush to hand). I'm hoping that will prevent any further rust build up. I believe the water has come in through the seal on the cover. Note the rubber seal seems to have a piece ripped off at the end. I applied ACF50 to both joint ends very liberally. I don't know if that was the correct lube to use but it made sense as I wanted to prevent any rust.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0210.jpg)
The part of the shaft near to the gear box was fine.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0194.jpg)
And this is how I much grease I applied. Probably more than necessary.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0205.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0207.jpg)
Whilst you're there doing maintenance, some other things you might want to do is clean out the housing and boots.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0199.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0202.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0190.jpg)
Reassembly is reverse of removal, but only if it was as easy as that. Remember to realign the hole in the spline with the spring. Push back firmly, and then attempt to pull the spline out. Is should refuse to do so. I knew when mine was in place as the spring mechanism pushed out some of the paste.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0209.jpg)
When assembling the main housing back, it can get tricky. Remember those spacers? Put them on, and get the axle with the 27mm bolt on first. Note that this goes in from the rear outwards. Do not tighten yet.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/IMAG0176.jpg)
Once the assembly goes into the position above, it can be attached to the top mounting. The spring will always attempt to push back. Using one hand, angle the spine and with the other hand push the main housing up gently. Use the spline in the housing (the one the read wheel attaches to) to mesh the splines together. It can take a few attempts. The key here is to angle the spline. Keep on angling and pushing up. It doesn't require too much force - just patience. Once the splines are meshed completely, push up to mate to the top bolt assembly. The spring will be pushing back so hold firm. I have a hydraulic jack which I used to hold it in place whilst I put the bolt through.
Grease the spline that attaches the rear wheel. Do this every time you take the wheel off.
Remember to torque all the bolts and assemble the wheel. Test the brakes as well.
Once assembled, the clicking noise has totally disappeared. Smooth as butter.
This is worrying. If it's a common fault I would be expecting a recall. The average joe can't be expected to do the procedure above. Is this common on all models or the ealry models only?
Thx for posting - will make useful reference material.
In any case I've ordered a new seal for £22
Expensive bit of rubber
NB, can I book mine in with you at 9.30 a week on Wednesday?
;D
:D Only available weekends!
Norman Bates, congratulations for the work done, NOT A Giochetto operation called. My GTR are not in Cardano No clock, but will execute your normal operations, it will now that I think is easier? MGvalerio. ;D
from looking at your youtube videsos it shouldn't be a problem for you. I intend to do this every 15000 miles. I replaced the seal today
In Italian
guardando il tuo youtube videsos non dovrebbe essere un problema per voi. Ho intenzione di farlo ogni 15000 km. Ho sostituito la guarnizione di oggi
Quote from: Norman Bates on October 02, 2010, 05:53:02 PM
from looking at your youtube videsos it shouldn't be a problem for you. I intend to do this every 15000 miles. I replaced the seal today
In Italian
guardando il tuo youtube videsos non dovrebbe essere un problema per voi. Ho intenzione di farlo ogni 15000 km. Ho sostituito la guarnizione di oggi
MGvalerio
executed unleash Apartment Cardano, all is ok, it was always well oil, i.e. not dry, only a seal of cover Cardano lower was iron, rebuilt with silicone.aveva rubbed in the joint and created powder of gomma.per isolation of the coupling could do better, if known well, the wheel hub in the top the seal is not well membership, with this is good and so, but as you say, each 15000k maintenance.
Valerio
http://www.youtube.com/v/5jQv3s3n3NM?
Quote from: MGvalerio on October 04, 2010, 03:23:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/5jQv3s3n3NM?
Excellent! Do you have the second part which shows the greasing and assembly? Which moly paste did you use? Your spline looks like a better condition than mine.
That was a very informative video. It still looks a bit daunting to me but perhaps I will have a go at doing mine over the winter months when the bike is laid up for the snow.
Norman & Valentino, how long does the procedure take? From what I have researched this has the potential to be a serious problem if not tackled early. Is the interval of 15000 miles correct?
[ quote = autore Norman Bates link = topic = 77.msg591 # msg591 date = 1.286.220,544 mila ]
[ quote = autore MGvalerio link = topic = 77.msg587 # msg587 date = 1.286.202,229 mila ]
http://www.youtube.com/v/5jQv3s3n3NM ?
[/ quote]
Eccellente! Avete la seconda parte che mostra la lubrificazione e montaggio ? Che pasta moly hai usato? Il tuo spline sembra una condizione migliore della mia.
Il mio cardano non presentava alcun rumore,fatta operazione grazie a te NORMAN,non avrei mai capito come estrarre il cardano,se non si spinge dentro quel forellino una punta come un ago.
Ho usato GRASSO AD ALTE PRESTAZIONI. Non ho fatto filmato di rimontaggio per la semplicità,
ma ora penso di aver sbagliato a non averlo fatto.Io ho rimontato il tutto all inverso di come l'ho smontato,senza nessun piccolo contrattempo,forse fortuna.....?
Valerio. ;)
[ quote = autore da_boom link = topic = 77.msg596 # msg596 date = 1.286.226,753 mila ]
Norman & Valentino, quanto dura la procedura? Da quello che ho studiato questo ha il potenziale [/ i] è un problema grave se non saranno affrontate presto. È l'intervallo di 15 mila miglia corretto?
[/ quote]
La procedura nel mio caso circa 90 minuti.
Ho percorso 28000k e non avrei avuto problemi in futuro.
Se ci sono nella trasmissione dei cloch girando la ruota in senso di marcia,
non conviene aspettare molto.
IL GRASSO ALLA MECCANICA DEGLI ATTRITI, AL DIFUORI DEL MOTORE NON FA MAI MALE.
Valerio
Quote from: MGvalerio on October 04, 2010, 10:33:23 PM
La procedura nel mio caso circa 90 minuti.
Ho percorso 28000k e non avrei avuto problemi in futuro.
Se ci sono nella trasmissione dei cloch girando la ruota in senso di marcia,
non conviene aspettare molto.
IL GRASSO ALLA MECCANICA DEGLI ATTRITI, AL DIFUORI DEL MOTORE NON FA MAI MALE.
Valerio
Yes, the pin can get you if you're not aware. It isn't a difficult job but I would recommend that you use Honda Moly 60 paste. Did you also grease the spline which turns the rear wheel? That one should be greased every time you remove the wheel.
Quote from: da_boom on October 04, 2010, 10:12:33 PM
Norman & Valentino, how long does the procedure take? From what I have researched this has the potential to be a serious problem if not tackled early. Is the interval of 15000 miles correct?
I just guessed at 15000 miles. Based on my riding, thats the interval that I intend to do the procedure. As for how long it takes, I reckon it took me 2.5 hours but that was at a steady pace :D If I had to redo, I reckon between 60 - 90 mins (same as MGvalerio).
What I would say is have the correct tools to hand. Make a big difference.
Quote from: Lonewolf on October 04, 2010, 08:52:22 PM
That was a very informative video. It still looks a bit daunting to me but perhaps I will have a go at doing mine over the winter months when the bike is laid up for the snow.
I hope you have a warm garage ;D
If you need assistance give me a shout. Always willing to help a fellow biker. Maybe I can tempt you to take the secondary flies out as well!
[URL = http://img824.imageshack.us/i/immag0632.jpg/ ]
(http://img37.imageshack.us/i/immag0633.jpg/)
My Pan never went into a dealer because the first one did not know about greasing the splines with Pro Honda Moly 60 Paste and the second confirmed they used ordinary MS grease as Honda no longer supplied it. I purchased a 3oz (£15) tube imported by Motocross UK from American Honda. Moly 60 Paste is described as a solid lubricant used in assembly, repair and extreme pressure areas - and you use a few grammes (half teaspoon !!!!) on splines or apply thinly to sliding parts so as to form a film ---NB I think you used a lifetime quantity :o but I have seen photographs of extreme wear from lack of 'paste'. I would go so far as to agree with service instruction to apply paste to 'contact sliding parts' every time the rear wheel is removed.
Just about any Molybdenum DiSulphide (MDS or Moly) "grease" will do.
It is an assembly grease that is used during assembly for any part that will run dry, either initially or always.
In car engines it is recommended for use in camshaft journals and such during reassembly, but not recommended for use anywhere in bike engines as it can cause clutch slippage once mixed into the oil.
I've been using MDS on my GTR1000 splines for years and they show only moderate wear after 160,000 miles.
The splines should have been MDS'd at the factory so if there is none there when you first look at them, I would recommend a warranty claim as excessive wear could result. Mine had plenty on the wheel-finaldrive splines and on the shaft-finaldrive splines. I haven't checked the front end of the shaft, yet.
MDS should not be used on bolts or anything exposed as water can wash it off.
Bolts and other fixed items are better off with Coppergrease.
Any part that uses bearings should use LM (Lithium or "White") grease.
Examples are suspension linkages, headrace bearings, but NOT wheel bearings as these are pre-greased and sealed.
Any old MS grease? I wonder why the paste is produced then? When I researched this topic I was amazed at what is on the engineering market - but more so the extreme cost of specialist grease and paste - hence £15 for 3ozs of MS paste as against £5 for 16ozs of MS grease - I know which one was the hardest to clean out of my pores and which one I will use gloves next time !! 60% content as against 3% and comes in cardboard/metal tube because it erodes plastics and styrene resins.
Dunno, haven't seen anything in the GTR manual about using MDS paste.
The GTR1000 manual recommended MDS grease for the splines.
I'd have to check the relevant section in the 1400 manual.
No mention of paste anywhere !!!!!
Copied this from the manual
M: Apply molybdenum disulfide grease.
MO: Apply molybdenum disulfide oil solution.
(mixture of the engine oil and molybdenum disulfide grease in a weight 10 : 1)
When I bought the Moly 60 paste, they did say Honda was no longer going to manufacture Moly 60.
I admit I did go overboard with applying the paste, but wasn't sure about the quantity to apply. Any excess would be flung off anyway
Ive just Googled the Moly 60 paste and you can apparantly still get it. Depending on what its shelf life is, would it be a good idea to order some do you think?
A seerious subject so I have cut and pasted the following from USA - Motorcross World UK is where I got my supply !!
This stuff is for use on shaft drive splines at the back wheel. It is reckoned by most people to be the best there is and as I understand it all marques are using it. It comes as a bit of a shock, therefore, to hear that Honda no longer supplies it. It hasn't been "discontinued"...it is just "not for sale". (a Honda mangement process!). I have spoken to 5 Honda dealers and I've spoken twice with Honda UK technical staff and I have struggled to get this information. Earlier Honda shaft drive models used to state that the spline 'grease' should contain 60% molybdenem disulphide in order to protect the splines. Later models, like mine, just say Molybdenem disulphide (known as 'moly'). Honda won't give a reason for withdrawing it but say that Rocol produce an equivalent. Loctite used to produce a 60% moly but not any more and I use the Rocol at work and it is only 20% moly. And more worrying the dealers don't know what they're using!! This is quite serious stuff and I've since found out there is a lot of comment on this on the web. (Just google this subject). I found a source for Pro Honda moly 60 paste at Motorcross world UK and they have just had a case delivered from America so it is still available. What I don't understand why Honda Europe have stopped selling it. Apparently the dealerships are being left to make their own arrangements for obtaining a replacement.(Honda UK's words, not mine). All riders of shaft drive bikes need to be aware of the situation as using less than 60% moly is known to have a big effect on the longevity of the drive. If you do your own servicing you will know what you use. If you rely on professional mechanics to do your servicing you need to know what they use. Every time the back wheel is removed the splines should be recoated.
i know this is an old thread but i currently have my rear wheel off and was wondering about re greasing the splines.
re the original post isnt acf50 a bit scary to use near some rubber as it eats away at it?
and will my 2011 model be the same procedure as the earlier models on the pics?
and where can i get moly paste from!!!
cheers
edit found another thread with a link on here
http://www.motocrossworld.com/site/scripts/product_browse.php?product_id=22378
it comes in 85g containers
how much would i need to do the whole greasing ?
Quote from: aljaxon on March 24, 2014, 08:59:43 AMre the original post isnt acf50 a bit scary to use near some rubber as it eats away at it?
I'd certainly hope not as many people (including me) have their bikes treated all over with it once a year.
Sme good info here http://www.acf-50.co.uk/motorcycle.htm where it says it is safe on most rubber.
i read a while back that the old formula attacks natural rubber (latex as the yanks call it ) and possibly some other rubbers but the new formula doesnt.
i bought some and didnt want to take the chance on my old yam rd350 as ethanol is doing a good enough job on its own on my carb rubbers......
This is a very informative thread, the military may use such grease on tank final drives, 70 ton challenger 2 with spline drives counts as high pressue , next time im in a garrison i shall sniff about, oil and lubes are offen sold off cheap as military surplus, its a long shot but hey ! The pictures of the work being carried out are very helpful, will certainly enable poeple to overcome what sounds like a daunting task, but i would advise that all external areas are spotlessly clean before starting the strip down , it only takes a small amount of grit in the grease to produce a grinding paste that will cause untold damage to parts with machined tolerance levels measured in microns . Also what about other manufacturers that use shaft drives, what do they use, Triumph , BMW , Moto Guzzi , ,,, Great post , only added tuppence to a thread that is worth 200 quid in labour at a dealership ;-)
a bike mechanic i was talking today said he wouldnt go anywhere near moly paste again as it actually acts like a grinding paste. i didnt know enough to argue with him as ive never seen the stuff never mind used it.
i said i know that copper grease has like a gritty feeling to it compared to "normal grease" and he said the moly paste is even worse.....
i assume he is talking bs?
Mark at CalSci (great windscreens for alot of bikes) has made a website with some useful general motorcycle information.
About grease and greasing splines:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Shaft.html#Grease
An interesting guy with a small bussines in Sacramento. Dress code in the shop is hawaii-shirt, short and barefooted. beside making great windscreens he raises abandoned german shepherds (had a monster of a dog in the store who planted his nose firmly up my groin and made me freeze up instantly. Not done with the parenting on that one :shocked: )
I feel confident with his knowledge and the recommendations from the motorcycle manufacturers, so I will stay with Honda Moly 60 for now and sleeps well at night
Quote from: bacaruda on March 26, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
Mark at CalSci (great windscreens for alot of bikes) has made a website with some useful general motorcycle information.
About grease and greasing splines:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Shaft.html#Grease
An interesting guy with a small bussines in Sacramento. Dress code in the shop is hawaii-shirt, short and barefooted. beside making great windscreens he raises abandoned german shepherds (had a monster of a dog in the store who planted his nose firmly up my groin and made me freeze up instantly. Not done with the parenting on that one :shocked: )
I feel confident with his knowledge and the recommendations from the motorcycle manufacturers, so I will stay with Honda Moly 60 for now and sleeps well at night
Thanks for that link. That was an interesting read.
I have loads of Moly 60 paste
how much would i need to do the whole lot? and how much just for when the rear wheel comes off?
i can buy it in 100gm 500 gm and 1kilo tubs
would 100 gms do?
is this stuff here any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AS60-60-Moly-Assembly-Paste-100-gram/131150866916?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20890%26meid%3D5800411818797016414%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9312%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D131124871368 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AS60-60-Moly-Assembly-Paste-100-gram/131150866916?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20890%26meid%3D5800411818797016414%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9312%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D131124871368)
Quote from: aljaxon on March 28, 2014, 09:18:01 AM
how much would i need to do the whole lot? and how much just for when the rear wheel comes off?
i can buy it in 100gm 500 gm and 1kilo tubs
would 100 gms do?
is this stuff here any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AS60-60-Moly-Assembly-Paste-100-gram/131150866916?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20890%26meid%3D5800411818797016414%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9312%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D131124871368 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AS60-60-Moly-Assembly-Paste-100-gram/131150866916?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20890%26meid%3D5800411818797016414%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9312%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D131124871368)
Never heard of that brand tbh. You don't need a lot
That's what i have just purchased, i intend to do my splines within the next month, from the feedback he has it seems to be good stuff so time to give it a go.
Alan
100 gr will do fine for several years of spline-greasing.
Skickat från min GT-I9295 via Tapatalk
i asked him a few questions re the 60 % content he replied
This is the stuff I sell loads to bikers just read the feedback it 60% as the name suggests
Just give me a MSG when your ready
Regards Jim
he does 500 grams for 25 quid and a kilo for 50 quid but if 100 grams is enough ill go for that. although i am a bit of a dauber.. :oops:
cheers
Quote from: MGvalerio on October 04, 2010, 03:23:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/5jQv3s3n3NM?
Have you a new YouTube channel? https://www.youtube.com/user/valerio5284/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/valerio5284/videos)
I might try doing a video with one of those helmet cams and see how it turns out
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on March 28, 2014, 04:10:36 PM
I might try doing a video with one of those helmet cams and see how it turns out
Did you ever find your Go Pro?
Quote from: The Wolf on March 28, 2014, 06:57:27 PM
Did you ever find your Go Pro?
I did. Thanks for reminding me. I'll mount it this weekend
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on October 02, 2010, 05:53:02 PM
from looking at your youtube videsos it shouldn't be a problem for you. I intend to do this every 15000 miles. I replaced the seal today
In Italian
guardando il tuo youtube videsos non dovrebbe essere un problema per voi. Ho intenzione di farlo ogni 15000 km. Ho sostituito la guarnizione di oggi
http://youtu.be/BfoVVjbf6LU
So there you go....the time to beat is one minute fifty six seconds!!! :mfr_lol:
Quote from: The Wolf on April 06, 2014, 09:46:55 AM
So there you go....the time to beat is one minute fifty six seconds!!! :mfr_lol:
It will not be easy to beat.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2zz0zz6.jpg)
MGvalerio.