Right, I have stripped the bike down, and measured all 16 valve clearances at 27,000 miles
12 are right on the lower end of the specified range, two are mid range and two are very slightly under the lower limit.
Before I commit to removing the cams, has anyone got any real world tips for this job on this engine.
I have done clearances before on a couple of bikes, so am looking for tips/dodges/things to look out for on this engine.
I am going to recheck my work before ordering the shims as having read other posts on here, I think 12 out of 16 is a bit excessive, unless I have just been unlucky.
you say lower end meaning they have to much clearance ? Slack.If thats the case i would probably put it back together .As the valves wear the measurements get smaller.Ime 99.999% sure but get a second opinion
No, I mean I have too little clearance. I need thinner shims to get them back into mid-range.
I expect the clearances to close as the mileage increases, I have never experienced such a high proportion of valves to need adjusting.
Nice 1. Maybe do the cam sensor o ring while ya there.Try C.O.G forum for tips n tricks. :clap:
O-ring already done. I had a nice oily/cruddy build up around the exhaust cam sensor.
I know where to go when mine need doing Martin :clap:
Quote from: Geoff on November 03, 2017, 05:21:09 PM
I know where to go when mine need doing Martin :clap:
I do a nice B&B, you'll need an overnighter to get all the bodywork and other stuff removed just to see the camshafts !
Quote from: doebag on November 03, 2017, 06:03:18 PM
I do a nice B&B, you'll need an overnighter to get all the bodywork and other stuff removed just to see the camshafts !
Sounds good Martin, hope all goes well and you get it sorted OK
Is there a decent write up of this somewhere on the net?
My bike has just ticked over 30k so am thinking about tackling this myself.
Any chance you might be able to post a few pics and any tips/tricks you work out are needed please once the job's done?
Well shock of the day was the price.
12 shims came to £99.44 :shocked:
I managed to move four existing ones to other valves.
Luckily all in stock at Kawasaki UK, they'll be with me next week.
A bit cheaper at Wemoto
http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/kawasaki/gtr_1400_zg_1400_ccf/12/
This is not an exhaustive how to, you'll need the shop manual, but it may help to point out any items that I came across
Well that was a right adventure. I've done clearances/shims before so that bit was not too daunting, but the amount of stuff to remove, and the actual clearance to work in was a bit of a pain.
Following the workshop manual, I removed all the fairings except the headlight fairing.
The two foam inner panels I wrote, on before removing, with their orientation.
The tubular fairing stays, and the black sub frames. Again mark them for left/right orientation.
Finally r/h engine mount.
It may seem obvious which way round all the brackets fit, but if like me you are spreading the job out over a couple of week's worth of spare time, it always helps to have a reminder.
The radiator I left supported on a block of wood, but still plumbed in. It saves draining the coolant but does make it a bit more awkward when you come to refit as you are fighting the coolant hoses to get the bolts lined up to refit.
The rubber seals on the stick coils will probably be stuck to the recesses in the cam cover. A gentle amount of leverage on the seal will help the coils come up.
Remove the spark plugs
Remove the timing rotor cover and set to 1-4 TDC as described in the manual
Remove the seven cam cover bolts, noting that five are the same, one is medium length, and one is long length. I wrote on the cam cover with a sharpie where the two odd ones fitted.
Check the valve clearances as described in the manual. Access is a bit tight on the inlet valves, but not impossible.
Using the formula in the manual, work out what clearances need adjusting, which can be done by moving existing shims, and which need new shims purchasing. I wrote a simple table for all sixteen valves, see picture.
Remove the four oil feed pipes; these are held in by o-rings and should come out easily with a gentle wiggle.
Cam caps come out as described in the manual, all four are different but all marked. This is where I found out the l/h exhaust cam cap bolts are a pig to remove with the l/h engine mount still in position. I jacked under the engine to support it, and then removed the l/h mount. This makes things much easier when you come to torque down the caps on refitting.Note on the front edge and the rear edge are four locating dowels, make sure these stay in place and do not fall out.
Remove the exhaust cam first, this gives you a bit more clearance to get the inlet VVT unit out with the inlet cam. I also marked the 1st and 30th chain pins as described in the manual to aid refitting
Support the cam chain to stop it kinking, clean the VVT unit and highlight the timing mark with a sharpie to aid refitting.
I used a telescopic magnet to remove each cam follower and placed it in a small container marked with the valve it had come from. In my experience each follower came out with the shim stuck to it's underside, none of the shims stayed in the valve retainer.
I replaced the new shims using a telescopic magnet to place it in the valve retainer, make sure they go in flush, one went it wonky [see picture] but was easy to fish out with the magnet.
Refitting the cams was a bit of a pain, unless you tension the chain properly before refitting the cam caps, it is easy for the cam to move by a tooth and leave the chain too slack on the top run and the timing out. Check and double check your work.
When refitting everything, check against your own photos and the shop manual that cables/hoses etc all run correctly. It is easy for one of these to go the wrong side of a bracket and not be noticed until you try and fit the bodywork [guilty m'lud!]
While you are in there, check the exhaust cam sensor for oil leakage, remove and fit a new o-ring before refitting the radiator.
Nice description and pictures thanks!
Could you please tell me places to buy a workshop manual for a 2010 model please?
Thanks
Andy
Quote from: Handy_Andy on December 13, 2017, 12:22:30 AM
Nice description and pictures thanks!
Could you please tell me places to buy a workshop manual for a 2010 model please?
Thanks
Andy
See this forum thread
http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=297.0
There are a couple of links to pdf manuals there, not sure if the links are live anymore.
Oh and another tip. I changed the engine oil first, it' so much nicer working on the innards with clean oil rather than dirty.
Can you confirm the size of the oring you put? Was the kawasaki OEM one or you went for a bigger one to seal the leaks?
thanks
The original o-ring is 16mm by 2.5mm
I used one in my workshop stock that was 16mm by 3mm.
The extra 0.5mm makes it a little harder to push the sensor back in, but with a bit of lubrication it will go in fine.
Not sure why the originals leak over time, maybe the heat from the exhaust hardening the seal, or maybe variation in the casting/machining of the head.
Hi
That's what i thought
I have just ordered 16 by 3mm oring
Ill have all the Waspaloy 3 sensors checked.
What did you use to lubricate them? I was thinking in using hylomar blue to seal but not sure that it will ensure lubrication
Cheers
I used blue hylomar as well. Just the thinnest smear to lubricate, you don't need loads of it.
Thanks
Guys
Any recomended tool to use to mesure the clearance?
Thanks
A metric feeler gauge?
Yes I was just wondering if there is any ''range'' to advise?
I think the one I have might be to thick
Thanks
Quote from: badaboum on January 11, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Yes I was just wondering if there is any ''range'' to advise?
I think the one I have might be to thick
Thanks
Exactly this, the clearances are small, a standard set of feeler gauges may not go low enough. I had to buy a new set with a lower bottom range.
That's what I am looking of as piece of information
What range Am I supposed to expect?
The mean clearances are
Exhaust = 0.215mm
Inlet = 0.145mm
The smallest gap I measured at the outset was 0.102 mm.
guys
I am moving on well. there a a heck of a number of parts to remove. It's crazzzy
But I am stuck now. I feel I have removed everything that needs to be removed without having the engine to fall but the accessibility is really limited
Am I missing something? Especialy on the left side...
Thanks for your help
Sincerely
Quote from: badaboum on January 17, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Am I missing something? Especialy on the left side...
Thanks for your help
Sincerely
Yes, remove the three relays from their bracket. Then remove bracket and the shaped foam panel. Remove the tubular fairing bracket. You can then move the large wiring loom down to give more space, but left side is very tight for space.
Thanks
TO remove the tubular bracket I am going to have to remove the light fairing?? I was hoping not to touch that one...
THanks
No, headlight and fairing remain in place.
The front mounting bolt is up above the mirror, to left of instrument cluster.
My version of your photograph......
Thanks
I will work on this monday morning
I hope i'll be able to do this
THis is pretty hectic!!
SIncerely
Quote from: badaboum on January 19, 2018, 10:15:20 AM
Thanks
I will work on this monday morning
I hope i'll be able to do this
THis is pretty hectic!!
SIncerely
Keep reporting back. Getting access is a pain, once you are in there, the actual measuring and shim changing is not too bad.
Quote from: doebag on January 19, 2018, 11:38:33 AM
Keep reporting back. Getting access is a pain, once you are in there, the actual measuring and shim changing is not too bad.
I can't agree. It's no job for a novice or even the semi-skilled. It's a good thing to know one's limitation and stop there.
This is why I get mine done by my mechanic!
Quote from: Freddy on January 19, 2018, 11:07:59 PM
I can't agree. It's no job for a novice or even the semi-skilled. It's a good thing to know one's limitation and stop there.
I agree too, 'a man's got to know his limitations' [Dirty Harry Callaghan, 1973]
But if you are competent, then once the cams are exposed, measuring clearances and changing shims in no more difficult than other bikes, in fact with the cam chain on the end of the crankshaft, there is no risk of losing the chain into the bottom of the engine, as on some older bikes.
Quote from: PRD on January 20, 2018, 08:33:07 AM
This is why I get mine done by my mechanic!
I don't know what Kawasaki charge for this job, but I guess a big part of the labour charge, is removing/refitting body work etc.
Guys
So far I didn't found it hard or needed to be a mecanics to arrive where I am. It's just a pain in the ass because the amount of parts to remove (and to reffit) is crazy
In france, the 42k service is between 800 to 900€
Quote from: doebag on January 20, 2018, 09:35:37 AM
I agree too, 'a man's got to know his limitations' [Dirty Harry Callaghan, 1973]
But if you are competent, then once the cams are exposed, measuring clearances and changing shims in no more difficult than other bikes 'with shim-under-bucket-4x4-valve-head' in fact with the cam chain on the end of the crankshaft, there is no risk of losing the chain into the bottom of the engine, as on some older bikes.
Agreed -
competent, being the operative word but it's not simple or easy even when somewhat experienced. It is more complex and difficult than most due to restricted access. Let the novice and semi-skilled be warned, very warned.
Good luck with it badaboum. You will no doubt find them all within spec, which will save you.
Quote from: Freddy on January 20, 2018, 10:03:32 AM
Agreed - competent, being the operative word but it's not simple or easy even when somewhat experienced. It is more complex and difficult than most due to restricted access. Let the novice and semi-skilled be warned, very warned.
Good luck with it badaboum. You will no doubt find them all within spec, which will save you.
I also agree. Took my bike to Taylor Brothers last week, a small firm recommended by several people on this forum. I also know that he services the Staffordshire Blood Bikes so comes well recommended. Dropped the bike off Wednesday morning and picked it up on Friday lunchtime. very friendly and knowledgeable, did the job at the price he estimated and additional work at no extra charge. 26,000 mile service including tappet shim inspection £350 to £400 job done. I also got him to put on a rear PR4 GT, which he fitted for a very competitive price. Great people to deal with and I will certainly use them in future for all servicing etc. I live in Stockport which is a 125 mile round trip for me, but I consider it worthwhile.
https://taylorbrothersmotorcycles.co/
I've done the shims on a variety of bikes in the past. ZRx1200, ZZR600, ZX6R and 9R and some Suzukis, but I've just had the shims on the GTR done by Bournemouth Kawasaki. Rather too cramped for my big mits.
I did pull off all the panels and belly pan. They also put in new plugs at the same time as it seemed silly not to do so when all the engine is exposed. It needed all the exhaust valve reshimming and after a bit of juggling, just one new one on the inlet side.
It gave me a good opportunity to give all the ionnerds a good cleaning.
Taking off and refitting the panles myself saved about £200 in labour charges
Guys
I managed to remove the cylinder head cover and my plugs. They are all within range and looks very good
Now I need to work on my measurement of the clereance...
Any tips?
THanks
And quick question about the manual
THe mean values are :
exhaust 0,125mm
Inlet 0,145mm
But the standard valves clearence given in the book is :
exhaust : 0,19 to 0,24mm
Inlet 0,12 to 0,17mm
The mean value at inlet is within the clearance range given. So that's ok
For the Exhaust, I don't understand why the mean value is outside the range. Any idea?
Quote from: badaboum on January 24, 2018, 10:34:17 AM
And quick question about the manual
THe mean values are :
exhaust 0,125mm
Inlet 0,145mm
But the standard valves clearance given in the book is :
exhaust : 0,19 to 0,24mm
Inlet 0,12 to 0,17mm
The mean value at inlet is within the clearance range given. So that's ok
For the Exhaust, I don't understand why the mean value is outside the range. Any idea?
It's a misprint/transposition, the mean value of 0.19 to 0.24 is 0.
215
Did my measurement twice
All my exhaust value are off.
Removed the ACT, and ordering new shims
Back after a while
Finaly got some time to do the job.
All shims are updated and new valve clearance measured good
Now time to put back the cover and refitt all those nasty parts
Quick question:
1) how do you clean the hylomar blue? Thinner?
2) I tried to upgrade the oring on the camshaft sensor to the one with a larger diameter but I can't squeeze it in. How did you do it? The hylomar is not a good lubricant from my point of view, it gets dry pretty quickly, right?
Cheers
Quote from: badaboum on March 06, 2018, 10:42:46 PM
Quick question:
1) how do you clean the hylomar blue? Thinner?
2) I tried to upgrade the oring on the camshaft sensor to the one with a larger diameter but I can't squeeze it in. How did you do it? The hylomar is not a good lubricant from my point of view, it gets dry pretty quickly, right?
Cheers
Hylomar will clean off with a bit of thinners or similar solvent.
Engine Oil, Grease, Silicone lubricant, WD40, washing up liquid will all work as a lubricant when fitting 'O' rings :smiley:
Hi
I used grease and the oversize oring wasn't fitting easily. Did you had to give it a little hammer kick?
I am trying to fit the the 22mm 16mm gaged 3mm ring
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Joint-torique-NBR-D-22mm-d-16mm-%C3%A9paisseur-3mm-16x3mm/222616832229?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Thanks for the feedback