Hi,have a few questions regarding the flies.
If you remove the flies on the GTR,do you have to change the bikes mapping?
I know you have to do this when full exhaust systems are used.
Do some of the examles listed below need altered fuel mapping?
And if someone can explain why mapping is needed that would be great.
1.Stock bike with flies out.
2.Aftermarked muffler,flies out,stock airfilter
3.Aftermarked muffler,flies out,KN or BMC airfilter
4.Aftermarked muffler,stock bike
OK.....so i am not the brightest!...and i am sure more 'sage' advice will follow...however
Stock bike with new exhaust...depending on the exhaust used...you shouldn't need to remap the engine...thats not to say you can't remap the engine...it's just that the difference the new exhaust makes, doesn't push things things like the compression (exhaust gas pressure) out of tolerance
New exhaust and air filter should require a remap...as you have changed the input (air flow) and output (as above 'back' pressure)...but i believe you could still run the bike without mapping...it just wouldn't be quite right!
Stock bike, flies out......ok, so my understanding is this, removing the flies does not effect the overall BHP/Torque of the engine, but makes the power delivery more direct...so in effect the torque is available in a lower range..there could a slight gain in power but only because control system is 'simplyfied' .... so for your point 2. the question (and answer) is the same point 4.
IMHO if you alter all three points exhaust/flies/airfilter then you should add something like a juicebox or PCIII as that is a fairly significant chance to the engine operation, and power/torque is only a valid number if the power and torque are delivered by the engine in the right way and at the right time!!...so map to smooth out the torque curve...as linear delivery is the best (for me at any rate)
I run a Beowulf exhaust, and will eventually reaplce air filter with something else...but i will map the engine at the same point to ensure i am getting the best from it ;D
Thank you for answer:Your description of what removing the flies will do to the engine,are the same as I
thougt.Full exhaust,airfilter and an alternative fuel management will surley be the best solution,but also the most exspensive.
The beowulf slipon are nice,and decent prices. Someone have picures of these one their bikes?
Like to see the stubby ones and the warrior fit on to the bike.
How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?
How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?
A lot - not that I think a few kilos will make a difference (fuel consumption, performance or handling wise) on the road riding a 300kg bike with nearly 160 BHP. ::) ::)
I leave the original on because it has a catalytic converter and those after-market ones usually don't.
They may be lighter and smaller but produce a lot more really nasty pollutants.
Bad enough that I burn precious resources and pollute the atmosphere because I love to ride my bike for fun, but to add even more poisonous gases just for better looks and sound doesn't make sense to me.
Hello Trigger happy,
Had my 57plate bike back from BMC Racing Whitchurch Shrop, now with Remus Hexacone, flies out, pc3, k/n filter, fully mapped to my specs.
148 b.h.p. at the rear wheel, which is plenty for me. I will have the c/d of the mapping if anyone wants to copy it.
The intersting thing for me was, there were flat spots everywhere at low revs, which was concured when it was on the dyno. The fuel was nearly non exsistant at low revs and too rich at high revs. So what we have done, 1st to 4th gear the fuel is spot on when the revs are needed, and in 5th/6th via the pc it reverts back to running lean for crusing. Only been back a day or so, but it feels so much smoother now. With the exhaust baffle out, there is'nt much difference noise wise, than with it in. The weight of the standard exhaust against the carbon remus is huge, two hands to take it off, and two fingers to put the new one on.
On the dyno, the standard b.h.p. was 137 at the rear wheel, with the remus this added another 5bhp, and the other 6 bhp was with the mapping etc.
The engine is still a little tight, so in time it should become even better.
Mike at BMC said that every engine is different, even though it is the same model etc.
The cost was a little more than i was first qouted, but i think it was well worth it, due to the time it took to get it right.It usually takes abot 10/12 runs to map a bike says B.M.C., mine took 29 runs and cost me £580.00 this included the all parts less the exhaust.
I hope that this has been of interest . Cheers B/F
If memory serves correctly i think the difference between stock and beowulf exhaust is something like 7kg...you're right that in terms of performance vs weight, it is not enough to change things 'on paper'...however that is 7kg unloading off the rear suspension...and whether it is in my head, or actual, i feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one.
The reason for changing the exhaust was simple....i occasionally commute, and prefer to run without the panniers as it makes the bike wider....the stock exhaust is a bit like a missile launcher, so it was more for asthetic reasons than anything else...i have the stubby warrior on my bike...when i get moment i'll post a picture ...however in hindsight..... i think the oval looks better, and is more inkeeping with the bike
Honestly...wait until you ride the thing!! it has more than enough torque and BHP. OK if you want to fettle it...but its not essential...trust me!!
Whereabouts in Norway are you.....as brilliant as some of the roads are there...i suspect there is a 'maximum' useable BHP..especially as the seasons change from summer to winter
however that is 7kg unloading off the rear suspension...and whether it is in my head, or actual, i feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one.
Would any of the guys who ride with pillions ask them to loose a couple of kilos because you would feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one? :D
Or go on a diet?
I don't think so.
::) ::) ;D
BTW the widest part of the GTR is at the front (the mirrors) and not the rocket launcher. :-[
Quote from: mecki on July 08, 2011, 05:22:11 PM
Would any of the guys who ride with pillions ask them to loose a couple of kilos because you would feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one? :D
Or go on a diet?
I don't think so.
::) ::) ;D
BTW the widest part of the GTR is at the front (the mirrors) and not the rocket launcher. :-[
99% of my riding is solo....but that 7 extra kilos means that I can eat quite a few quarter pounder royal's ;D ...... Never said the exhaust was widest point! But the Beowulf makes the back end 'look' neater when there are no panniers on!
Now if they would put a catalytic converter into their exhausts I would probably buy one too.
The weight saving are not so important,more the looks of the muffler.
Going to use the bike commuting with out the panniers,so i need a different
muffler. The original is just to big. Going to trie out the bike stock before any
farkels and mods beeing added.
Being driving GSXR R1 and Thunderace all non restricted,for many years.
I'm used to cope with power,maybe so much torque.But a GSXR 1000 K7 PCIII and
taylormade exhaust with the trottle fully open,is quite a handfull ;D.
When changing the exhaust on the GSXR,both mufflers and the cat where removed.
The new muffler where placed where the cat was before.Check www.racetaylormade.com.
Really nice and neat.
It transformed the bike complety,.Saving almost 12 kg on an allready light bike,wow.
I live in the middle of Norway out by the coast,Got great roads and nature but the tarmac
are starting to fall apart. Thats a shame becaus it could have been bikeheaven with decent tarmac.
When the cold season starts we put away the bikes. To risky,black ice and snow are not for me to
ride on.
The cat are not in the orginal muffler,I think it's in the collector after the down pipes.
correct me if I'm wrong
Looking forward to seeing pictures. :)
Are you sure the cat isn't in the muffler? Why is it so big and heavy then?
A Beowulf Titanium muffler costs £200 and is about half the size and only a fraction of the weight.
And the noise is still within the legal limit.
So why do Kawasaki put this huge rocket launcher on if it's just a silencer?
OK the new 2011 muffler is significantly smaller but still huge compared to the Beowulf.
Did find the service manual in this forum,and on page 275-277 are there a description of the the exhaust system.
No cat in the muffler,so why the stock muffler are so big and heavy? I dont know.
I think the bike exhausts are to future proof the bike.....it has to meet very stringent emissions tests.....I believe they are built to far exceed the current euro 3 regs...so if the regs get updated, the bike is still valid.....saves do redesigns over a prolonged period ;D
Remember that styling is a matter of opinion too.... Some folks like the standard pipe. Also cat is not in the end pipe
Well, I did some research on the net.
According to an article from 2008 I found on motorcycle.com http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/kawasaki/2008-kawasaki-concours-14-60446.html "it does have two catalytic converters; one can be found mid-pipe whilst the second is directly in the bazooka-size single can".
So removing the rocket launcher and replacing it with an after-market end pipe without cat will definitely increase emissions of highly toxic Nitrogen oxides since that's what the second cat is usually for.
BTW from 2012 new bikes sold in the EU will have to comply with Euro 4.
Quote from: mecki on July 08, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?
A lot - not that I think a few kilos will make a difference (fuel consumption, performance or handling wise) on the road riding a 300kg bike with nearly 160 BHP. ::) ::)
I leave the original on because it has a catalytic converter and those after-market ones usually don't.
They may be lighter and smaller but produce a lot more really nasty pollutants.
Bad enough that I burn precious resources and pollute the atmosphere because I love to ride my bike for fun, but to add even more poisonous gases just for better looks and sound doesn't make sense to me.
Cat isn't in the end can... :) Check out the USA forums where guys have removed it.
Quote from: TRIGGERHAPPY on July 08, 2011, 06:47:48 PM
The weight saving are not so important,more the looks of the muffler.
Going to use the bike commuting with out the panniers,so i need a different
muffler. The original is just to big. Going to trie out the bike stock before any
farkels and mods beeing added.
Being driving GSXR R1 and Thunderace all non restricted,for many years.
I'm used to cope with power,maybe so much torque.But a GSXR 1000 K7 PCIII and
taylormade exhaust with the trottle fully open,is quite a handfull ;D.
When changing the exhaust on the GSXR,both mufflers and the cat where removed.
The new muffler where placed where the cat was before.Check www.racetaylormade.com.
Really nice and neat.
It transformed the bike complety,.Saving almost 12 kg on an allready light bike,wow.
I live in the middle of Norway out by the coast,Got great roads and nature but the tarmac
are starting to fall apart. Thats a shame becaus it could have been bikeheaven with decent tarmac.
When the cold season starts we put away the bikes. To risky,black ice and snow are not for me to
ride on.
The cat are not in the orginal muffler,I think it's in the collector after the down pipes.
correct me if I'm wrong
Looking forward to seeing pictures. :)
Looks very neat & tidy http://www.racetaylormade.com/tmpages/suzpages/suz07-1000.html# (http://www.racetaylormade.com/tmpages/suzpages/suz07-1000.html#) I've got a K8 with twin Yoshi's & y pipe @
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/5696822171_611b33bdd2_b.jpg)
Cat isn't in the end can... :) Check out the USA forums where guys have removed it.
AFAIK the GTR has 2 cats. One in the pipe and one in the end can.
So why should I go to US forums to read about idiots who obviously give a damn about the environment and remove the first cat out of the pipe as well? Real heroes, ???
Yeah, let's burn some tyres and show those tree-hugging hippies we don't give a sh..t! :o
Quote from: mecki on July 09, 2011, 02:49:38 PM
Cat isn't in the end can... :) Check out the USA forums where guys have removed it.
AFAIK the GTR has 2 cats. One in the pipe and one in the end can.
So why should I go to US forums to read about idiots who obviously give a damn about the environment and remove the first cat out of the pipe as well? Real heroes, ???
Yeah, let's burn some tyres and show those tree-hugging hippies we don't give a sh..t! :o
Indeed - and it's not like there's any data manipulation at the Climate Research Unit (CRU) in Hadley, U.K.??
Regarding the cat(s) if you look under your bike you can see where the two are located by the discoloration caused by the heat. There is not cat in the end pipe, the literature is often wrong on these details.
Here are some dyno results for end can and full systems: http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm (http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm)
You can quell your concern about removing the cats by buying carbon credits from Al Gore so he can get a bigger house and a fatter arse. ;D
Jason,
Cats were introduced to convert highly toxic pollutants (Hydrocarbons, Carbon Monoxide and Nitrogen Oxides) into more or less harmless gases (Carbon Dioxide, Water, Nitrogen and Oxygen).
It has nothing to do with global warming.
To the contrary the carbon footprint of a bike with cat may even be worse since for the cat to work properly a less efficient air/fuel mix is often needed.
So don't give me that Al Gore crap.
And how do you know that there is no second cat in the GTR can? Did you take one apart and have a look?
Dyno charts may be fine and dandy, but where are the corresponding emission charts?
OK, you get more torque and a few more HP but at the same time you blow a lot more toxic fumes in the air that we all breathe.
there endeth the leeson from our forum oracle
Mecki...in the face of pretty much everyone else on he forum saying there is no cat in the exhaust end can......you're banging your drum!...let go! You're wrong, that's all there is to it! ...and I don't suppose anyone else here minds that you're wrong either.....but please enlighten us....show me the literature where you have iron clad proof that it's there. Cause I will say this I've been cleaning my bike and I found the cat just before the link pipe...just where everyone has said it would be
If you're so worried about the environment.....why the hell did you buy a 1.4l motorbike.... That's like ordering a big mac and fries....and making your drink a diet coke....cause you're worried about your weight.....put us out of our misery and buy an electric scooter ::)
I have contacted Kawasaki UK customer service with this question and hopefully they will be able to settle the matter once and for all.
If the rocket launcher is really just a silencer I will replace it with a oval Beowulf Titanium end can when I come back from France next month. ;D
I totally agree that the original is far to big and ugly. :D :D
If you look at how the systems have evolved it makes sense that there is no cat in end can. For example, my 01 zx12r and 05 zx10r both had cats in the can. A simple slip on swap and I was good to go with better throttle response, heat dissipation, slight hp increase, and a few pounds lighter. My 08 zx10 had the cats in the header pipe thereby requiring a full exhaust. The zx14 went to header cats with the revision in '08. It may relate to efficiency or effectiveness and not just the ease of getting rid of the cat but for whatever reason the trend in Kawasaki has been towards header cats and away from the end can cats.
The only issue I have run into when removing the cat(s) is this guy showing up at my doorstep crying like a little girl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-FZsysQNw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-FZsysQNw)
;D
Quote from: mecki on July 09, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
I have contacted Kawasaki UK customer service with this question and hopefully they will be able to settle the matter once and for all.
If the rocket launcher is really just a silencer I will replace it with a oval Beowulf Titanium end can when I come back from France next month. ;D
I totally agree that the original is far to big and ugly. :D :D
Most polution in Norway comes from UK etc ....http://www.miljostatus.no/en/Topics/Air-pollution/Acid-rain/ (http://www.miljostatus.no/en/Topics/Air-pollution/Acid-rain/)
(http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/environment/power/coal/090407_rfoster_mp_env_power_coal_drax.jpg)
agree with FH, this a chilled forum where all reasonable opinions heard etc, although can u imagine the associated forum for leci scooters with passwords code phrases n secrets o maxin out voltage...... shudder.
OK - here is the verdict from Kawasaki UK customer service.
We are pleased to confirm that the UK version of the 1400GTR has a catalytic converter within the exhaust manifold only.
So I can now replace the rocket launcher with a Beowulf end can with a clean conscience.
Thank you all for the bad Karma points.
I think you are being a little harsh on those who choose to remove their catalysers.
For starters Cats have no effect on carbon emissions, but they do increase the proportion of CO2 as they convert CO to CO2 and burn any leftover hydrocarbons. They were introduced primarily to get rid of the HNO2 and HNO3 in the exhaust gases as these are nasty and were a major contributor to acid rain.
However, the damage that is caused to the "environment" in mining the metals needed (platinum, rhodium, molybdenum, manganese) and refining them causes more carbon to be released into the environment and the net effect is that they are not very efficient.
As to whether you choose to remove one or not is up to you.
I chose not to have children so my carbon footprint is tiny compared to that of anyone who has had children.
Yes, your personal carbon footprint includes all of those of all of your descendents. ;D
Quote from: Therenback on July 09, 2011, 08:21:13 PM
agree with FH, this a chilled forum where all reasonable opinions heard etc, although can u imagine the associated forum for leci scooters with passwords code phrases n secrets o maxin out voltage...... shudder.
What about the pollution caused by generating the electricity to run an electric bike ....it would be green'er' if you had solar panels on your roof producing the energy to charge the bike...plus what is the 'environmental cost' of the cells?.... whilst i am sure that electric bikes are less polluting that standard combustion engines...i don't think they are as green as many would like to think..... the basic premise holds true that no matter how you go about it, there is an environmental price to be paid however you generate energy! ::)
Quote from: mecki on July 11, 2011, 11:37:24 AM
OK - here is the verdict from Kawasaki UK customer service.
We are pleased to confirm that the UK version of the 1400GTR has a catalytic converter within the exhaust manifold only.
So I can now replace the rocket launcher with a Beowulf end can with a clean conscience.
Thank you all for the bad Karma points.
good news on the exhaust though ;D Oval end can is the most visually pleasing i think..... i have the warrior type, doesn't look bad, but i was to buy another one, then oval; is the way i'd go...more inkeeping with the looks of the bike
I have my eye on the long oval Titanium can with carbon end piece - should look absolutely fab :-*
Or maybe I should better go for the carbon variety? :-\
Quote from: mecki on July 11, 2011, 01:56:06 PM
I have my eye on the long oval Titanium can with carbon end piece - should look absolutely fab :-*
Or maybe I should better go for the carbon variety? :-\
Carbon fiber cools more quickly and is sexy but can deteriorate more quickly over time compared to stainless or ti.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/Hoody_photo/CIMG2623.jpg)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/Hoody_photo/CIMG2621.jpg)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/Hoody_photo/CIMG2619.jpg)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/Hoody_photo/CIMG2624.jpg)
Found a picture of a silver GTR with a beowulf warrior in mirror finish,that where really nice.
If I'm removing the flies I have to get a Power Commander with a matching map
Did not find any mapping for beowulf on the Power Commander home site.
Are there any of the other mapping listed there, that i can use?
Do not have a dynocentre nearby.
Looks great, Winston.
I wonder if the black would go with my green 2011, though?
Probably the mirror finished or coloured Ti or the carbon might look better on the green bike.
I reckon it definitely looks better with the carbon end cone.
How much work is involved to swap?
About a 20 minute job if you can use a spanner - 30 if you can't!
I chose black finish as it is similar to OEM finish and subtle. Carbon end can is the icing IMO!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5686467821_002f2dfb0f_o.jpg)
I like my shiney can! It was on the bike when I bought it and sounds luverrrrly!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IDTopi9GBhY/Tb34cmSO6sI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/W52U8LI1V2I/s1024/not%252520weddog%252520trip%252520%25252823%252529.jpg)
Nice pictures,got something to think about there. Like the shiny one on patrick's bike.
It blend nicely in with the bike,hmmm...
Keep on posting picures.
Looking forward to pick up the bike on saturday.Starting friday after work.
Long drive down to the dealer but the weather forecast are promising.
It will be a great trip,567 miles one way 8) No I'm not mad,just crazy.
Nice test drive home on my new GTR. ;D.
You will get full report when I'm back on sunday.
Remus Okami is nice ;D
The remus was nice :) Can't make up my mind. i will leave the original muffler on
for a while longer and then decide.
Hopeing for more pictures of GTR with aftermarked mufflers or full systems
Quote from: fatharry on July 11, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
What about the pollution caused by generating the electricity to run an electric bike ....it would be green'er' if you had solar panels (http://www.shinesolar.net) on your roof producing the energy to charge the bike...plus what is the 'environmental cost' of the cells?.... whilst i am sure that electric bikes are less polluting that standard combustion engines...i don't think they are as green as many would like to think..... the basic premise holds true that no matter how you go about it, there is an environmental price to be paid however you generate energy! ::)
Using alternative sources of energy seems to be very expensive..But still we need to use these sources in order to solve energy crisis.