Removing the flies

[TRIGGERHAPPY]

Hi,have a few questions regarding the flies.
If you remove the flies on the GTR,do you have to change the bikes mapping?
I know you have to do this when full exhaust systems are used.

Do some of the examles listed below need altered fuel mapping?
And if someone can explain why mapping is needed that would be great.

1.Stock bike with flies out.
2.Aftermarked muffler,flies out,stock airfilter
3.Aftermarked muffler,flies out,KN or BMC airfilter
4.Aftermarked muffler,stock bike

[fatharry]

OK.....so i am not the brightest!...and i am sure more 'sage' advice will follow...however

Stock bike with new exhaust...depending on the exhaust used...you shouldn't need to remap the engine...thats not to say you can't remap the engine...it's just that the difference the new exhaust makes, doesn't push things things like the compression (exhaust gas pressure) out of tolerance

New exhaust and air filter should require a remap...as you have changed the input (air flow) and output (as above 'back' pressure)...but i believe you could still run the bike without mapping...it just wouldn't be quite right!

Stock bike, flies out......ok, so my understanding is this, removing the flies does not effect the overall BHP/Torque of the engine, but makes the power delivery more direct...so in effect the torque is available in a lower range..there could a slight gain in power but only because control system is 'simplyfied' .... so for your point 2. the question (and answer) is the same point 4.

IMHO if you alter all three points exhaust/flies/airfilter then you should add something like a juicebox or PCIII as that is a fairly significant chance to the engine operation, and power/torque is only a valid number if the power and torque are delivered by the engine in the right way and at the right time!!...so map to smooth out the torque curve...as linear delivery is the best (for me at any rate)

I run a Beowulf exhaust, and will eventually reaplce air filter with something else...but i will map the engine at the same point to ensure i am getting the best from it  ;D

[TRIGGERHAPPY]

Thank you for answer:Your description of what removing the flies will do to the engine,are the same as I
thougt.Full exhaust,airfilter and an alternative fuel management will surley be the best solution,but also the most exspensive.
The beowulf slipon are nice,and decent prices. Someone have picures of these one their bikes?
Like to see the stubby ones and the warrior fit on to the bike.

How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?

[mecki]

How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?

A lot - not that I think a few kilos will make a difference (fuel consumption, performance or handling wise) on the road riding a 300kg bike with nearly 160 BHP. ::) ::)
I leave the original on because it has a catalytic converter and those after-market ones usually don't.
They may be lighter and smaller but produce a lot more really nasty pollutants.
Bad enough that I burn precious resources and pollute the atmosphere because I love to ride my bike for fun, but to add even more poisonous gases just for better looks and sound doesn't make sense to me.

[Black Flash]

Hello Trigger happy,

Had my 57plate bike back from BMC Racing Whitchurch Shrop, now with Remus Hexacone, flies out, pc3, k/n filter, fully mapped to my specs.

148 b.h.p. at the rear wheel, which is plenty for me. I will have the c/d of the mapping if anyone wants to copy it.

The intersting thing for me was, there were flat spots everywhere at low revs, which was concured when it was on the dyno. The fuel was nearly non exsistant at low revs and too rich at high revs. So what we have done, 1st to 4th gear the fuel is spot on when the revs are needed, and in 5th/6th via the pc it reverts back to running lean for crusing. Only been back a day or so, but it feels so much smoother now. With the exhaust baffle out, there is'nt much difference noise wise, than with it in. The weight of the standard exhaust against the carbon remus is huge, two hands to take it off, and two fingers to put the new one on.

On the dyno, the standard b.h.p. was 137 at the rear wheel, with the remus this added another 5bhp, and the other 6 bhp was with the mapping etc.

The engine is still a little tight, so in time it should become even better.

Mike at BMC said that every engine is different, even though it is the same model etc.

The cost was a little more than i was first qouted, but i think it was well worth it, due to the time it took to get it right.It usually takes abot 10/12 runs to map a bike says B.M.C., mine took 29 runs and cost me £580.00 this included the all parts less the exhaust.

I hope that this has been of interest . Cheers B/F

[fatharry]

If memory serves correctly i think the difference between stock and beowulf exhaust is something like 7kg...you're right that in terms of performance vs weight, it is not enough to change things 'on paper'...however that is 7kg unloading off the rear suspension...and whether it is in my head, or actual, i feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one.

The reason for changing the exhaust was simple....i occasionally commute, and prefer to run without the panniers as it makes the bike wider....the stock exhaust is a bit like a missile launcher, so it was more for asthetic reasons than anything else...i have the stubby warrior on my bike...when i get moment i'll post a picture ...however in hindsight..... i think the oval looks better, and is more inkeeping with the bike

Honestly...wait until you ride the thing!! it has more than enough torque and BHP. OK if you want to fettle it...but its not essential...trust me!!

Whereabouts in Norway are you.....as brilliant as some of the roads are there...i suspect there is a 'maximum' useable BHP..especially as the seasons change from summer to winter

[mecki]

however that is 7kg unloading off the rear suspension...and whether it is in my head, or actual, i feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one.

Would any of the guys who ride with pillions ask them to loose a couple of kilos because you would feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one? :D
Or go on a diet?
I don't think so.
::) ::) ;D
BTW the widest part of the GTR is at the front (the mirrors) and not the rocket launcher. :-[

[fatharry]

Would any of the guys who ride with pillions ask them to loose a couple of kilos because you would feel the difference in the rear, albeit a small one? :D
Or go on a diet?
I don't think so.
::) ::) ;D
BTW the widest part of the GTR is at the front (the mirrors) and not the rocket launcher. :-[

99% of my riding is solo....but that 7 extra kilos means that I can eat quite a few quarter pounder royal's  ;D ...... Never said the exhaust was widest point! But the Beowulf makes the back end 'look' neater when there are no panniers on!

[mecki]

Now if they would put a catalytic converter into their exhausts I would probably buy one too.

[TRIGGERHAPPY]

The weight saving are not so important,more the looks of the muffler.
Going to use the bike commuting with out the panniers,so i need a different
muffler. The original is just to big. Going to trie out the bike stock before any
farkels and mods beeing added.

Being driving GSXR R1 and Thunderace all non restricted,for many years.
I'm used to cope with power,maybe so much torque.But a GSXR 1000 K7 PCIII and
taylormade exhaust with the trottle fully open,is quite a handfull ;D.
When changing the exhaust on the GSXR,both mufflers and the cat where removed.
The new muffler where placed where the cat was before.Check www.racetaylormade.com.
Really nice and neat.

It transformed the bike complety,.Saving almost 12 kg on an allready light bike,wow.
I live in the middle of Norway out by the coast,Got great roads and nature but the tarmac
are starting to fall apart. Thats a shame becaus it could have been bikeheaven with decent tarmac.
When the cold season starts we put away the bikes. To risky,black ice and snow are not for me to
ride on.

The cat are not in the orginal muffler,I think it's in the collector after the down pipes.
correct me if I'm wrong

Looking forward to seeing pictures. :)

[mecki]

Are you sure the cat isn't in the muffler? Why is it so big and heavy then?
A Beowulf Titanium muffler costs £200 and is about half the size and only a fraction of the weight.
And the noise is still within the legal limit.
So why do Kawasaki put this huge rocket launcher on if it's just a silencer?
OK the new 2011 muffler is significantly smaller but still huge compared to the Beowulf.

[TRIGGERHAPPY]

Did find the service manual in this forum,and on page 275-277 are there a description of the the exhaust system.
No cat in the muffler,so why the stock muffler are so big and heavy? I dont know.

[fatharry]

I think the bike exhausts are to future proof the bike.....it has to meet very stringent emissions tests.....I believe they are built to far exceed the current euro 3 regs...so if the regs get updated, the bike is still valid.....saves do redesigns over a prolonged period ;D

Remember that styling is a matter of opinion too.... Some folks like the standard pipe. Also cat is not in the end pipe

[mecki]

Well, I did some research on the net.
According to an article from 2008 I found on motorcycle.com http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/kawasaki/2008-kawasaki-concours-14-60446.html "it does have two catalytic converters; one can be found mid-pipe whilst the second is directly in the bazooka-size single can".
So removing the rocket launcher and replacing it with an after-market end pipe without cat will definitely increase emissions of highly toxic Nitrogen oxides since that's what the second cat is usually for.
BTW from 2012 new bikes sold in the EU will have to comply with Euro 4.

[Andy]

How much lighter are the beowulf muffler than the stock muffler?

A lot - not that I think a few kilos will make a difference (fuel consumption, performance or handling wise) on the road riding a 300kg bike with nearly 160 BHP. ::) ::)
I leave the original on because it has a catalytic converter and those after-market ones usually don't.
They may be lighter and smaller but produce a lot more really nasty pollutants.
Bad enough that I burn precious resources and pollute the atmosphere because I love to ride my bike for fun, but to add even more poisonous gases just for better looks and sound doesn't make sense to me.

Cat isn't in the end can... :) Check out the USA forums where guys have removed it.