I cannot believe that anyone thought this would be a good idea!!

[Lonewolf]

Somebody told me about this at work today and I thought they were winding me up, but regrettably they were not. 


I cannot believe that either of the two Officers actually thought this would be a good idea. I've just lost a little more respect for Cops 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-watchdog-tell-north-wales-10952515

[O.C.]

Yeah, I heard about that on the national news

I'm completely baffled too

If it was my dog I would be hammering on the Police Superintendents door   

[mark1400]

I do believe it is wrong to investigate themselves, as for killing the dog an Alsatian Ran into the road a couple of years back and my mate was on his motorcycle and to cut a long story short he ended up crashing and in hospital.

I believe the police did the right thing in this case ( this is just my opinion and means nothing) I do a lot of motorway driving about 70 miles a day in my car and if a dog runs out on the M6 during rush-hour I would not swerve or take action because this could endanger human life and people just do not leave a decent gap behind the vehicle in front (Remember the old saying only a fool breaks the two second rule) so hitting the brakes would invite disaster.

I personally will always put people first, unfortunately it's not a perfect world or a perfect solution but I see the aftermath of a crash every couple of days on the m6 motorway and it makes me realise just how dangerous the roads are though it is usually because the driver behind is far too close so if you did hit the brakes there would be a pileup.

cheers.

[PRD]

I do believe it is wrong to investigate themselves, as for killing the dog an Alsatian Ran into the road a couple of years back and my mate was on his motorcycle and to cut a long story short he ended up crashing and in hospital.

I believe the police did the right thing in this case ( this is just my opinion and means nothing) I do a lot of motorway driving about 70 miles a day in my car and if a dog runs out on the M6 during rush-hour I would not swerve or take action because this could endanger human life and people just do not leave a decent gap behind the vehicle in front (Remember the old saying only a fool breaks the two second rule) so hitting the brakes would invite disaster.

I personally will always put people first, unfortunately it's not a perfect world or a perfect solution but I see the aftermath of a crash every couple of days on the m6 motorway and it makes me realise just how dangerous the roads are though it is usually because the driver behind is far too close so if you did hit the brakes there would be a pileup.

cheers.

:agree:Still love dogs though.

[Lonewolf]

What aggrieved me though is that this was apparently at approximately 3am, so you can assume there would not be significant volumes of traffic on the road.


This is the Police who are dealing with the incident, as opposed to members of the public who could be unaware of the hazard ahead and may understandably suddenly come across the dog and have to swerve or take rapid evasive action.


The Police are capable of placing a static road block on, creating a safe working environment for either them, firearms or a vet to deal with the dog. I don't object to the dog being destroyed necessarily if it was genuinely a significant hazard to others in such an environment but I firmly believe the way it was despatched was barbaric.


I know I would not be able to carry out such a deliberate act, had I in identical circumstances been 'ordered' to kill the dog in this way I would have refused and if that then resulted in disciplinary action against me then so be it.....I would not have considered that to be a lawful order.


The fact that the Force have referred themselves to the IPPC and their own PCC wants answers in addition to the RSPCA being involved suggest that the Officers actions were unjustified and potentially unlawful.


Interestingly in contrast to this incident, a couple of days later Gloucestershire Police dealt with a similar incident on the M5 involving a Border Collie running into the traffic and they managed to safely capture the dog and then photographed it on the back seats of their traffic car prior to Tweeting the story with a headline similar to "And We Didn't Have To Run It Over."


So even they were having a dig at North Wales Police.

[Phill_York]

I'm a dog owner/lover and was initially shocked at this until I read into it more deeply.

They had tried to capture the dog and it had bitten one of the officers already. It was a foxhound so wasn't used to being handled by people making it nervous of humans, frightened and alone.  There was no dog handler or dog warden available. There were no firearms officers available. The dog was running towards a major road and there weren't enough resources to close the road safely in both directions.  They were both dog owners/lovers and didn't take the decision lightly, even ensuring they hit it with enough speed to ensure it was killed instantly.

It's very easy to criticise after the event and come up with a better plan without the sense of urgency that these officers had. I trust that if any of the options people are suggesting were possible they would have taken them.  To cap it all, the owner of the dog, who knows more of the facts than us, has agreed it was their only option.

In life, some people have to make difficult decisions and I believe we should support them unless we believe they have been cavalier or reckless in that decision, even if things do go wrong sometimes or sound like they have.

Sorry if that sounds like a rant :-)

[virginiajim]

I certainly know I couldn't do that no matter what the circumstances.

[Rusty]

Disgusting ... that sort of thing would never happen in The Met. !

I am truly amazed that any officer would even consider taking that course of action.

[snowy]

Justified? only the officers at the time could make that decision!
Officers were dog owners, think how they felt?
If your next of kin was driving on a major road / expressway at 3 in the morning, and swerved / reacted (like most of us would to avoid a domestic animal, that should have been contained in house or pen, that strayed into our path) and heaven forbid were killed, who would we blame then? Perhaps the police if they were aware of it! Why has the animal owner been brought to question?
Re the Gloucester dog, can't see any detail that the dog had bitten them, different circumstance.
Right or wrong in whoevers' opinion, I feel they took the right action at that time.

[O.C.]

forgive me for asking, but, what effect would a Tazer have on a dog, maybe that was another option, in my book if the animal had died as a result of being Tazered that would seem less barbaric than using a police vehicle to run the animal over

I ran over a Badger once (living in the countryside it is a possibility ), it caused little damage to my 4 X 4 but that didn't make me feel good about the experience 

[PaulB]

forgive me for asking, but, what effect would a Tazer have on a dog, maybe that was another option, in my book if the animal had died as a result of being Tazered that would seem less barbaric than using a police vehicle to run the animal over

+1

I've hit a muntjac in a car at 70mph. It demolished the front of the car (bursting both the radiator and the oil-cooling radiator) and the deer ended up as a smear down the road

Not a pleasant experience.

Cheers

Paul B.

[Winston Smith]

I'm with Phill all the way on this one.
To close a road would be a pointless exercise.  The canine would simply run around, as it clearly seems to have been doing.
Calling a vet out is all well and good, but getting hold of one, locally, at 3am, within a reasonable time?  Nigh impossible, particularly if the locus is rural.  Plus finding one willing to actually attend?  From experience not a simple procedure.
No doubt all options were considered and they made their decision based on last option available.
Better a dead dog than a human being.
I have to say, I once sat in a patrol car with a bloke who'd just murdered his mother with knives, stood in front of the car, and had he come towards me I had only one plan!

[Rusty]

OC ... lots of issues with Tasering a dog .. it would work no problems .. I have pepper sprayed a dog on a job in the years before we had tasers and that worked well too, but a Taser is a Section 5 Firearm ...and there is very close control over any discharge .. it all has to be Proportionate Justifiable and Accountable. Any Firearms officer would think a lot more than twice in doing this ... the issues relate not only to paperwork but to what others would think of your actions, the probable poor press that you would get and the damage limitation of your bosses when the RSPCA get hold of it ... probably not worth the aggro !

[davetherave]

Some very valid and indeed heartfelt opinions or a very difficult and emotional subject.

When I first read the headlight my first reaction was...................you bastards  but after reading and digesting all the comments I understand the situation with more clarity, not saying I agree or disagree just a bit more understanding.

I've had dogs all of my life when I was living with parents but just last Saturday I was visiting one of my grandchildren, he's just over two years old but was born 3 months premature weighing in just under 2Lbs ( yes two pounds the same as a bag of sugar) it was touch and go for weeks if he was going to make but thankfully after months in hospital in the prem baby unit he pulled through, however he's tiny for his age and when one of his parents over excited jack russell's knocked him over my initial reaction was to pick the dog up by it's scruff and threaten to break it's neck, Julie said she'd never seen me so angry.  I love dogs but people first.

[O.C.]

Seems like a classic case of damned if you do, damned if you don't

In cases like this there's no rule book to refer to and it will alwaays be an emotive situation

Like i said if it had been a dog of mine I would still be looking for a row with a senior police officer