ECU Re-flash in USA

[Kevin]

Do you know what it was before?

Kevin

[Kwikasfuki]

Is there any lag or is the power delivery smooth?

[Andy]

Do you know what it was before?

Kevin

No...same as any other? 155 - about 16% = 130+ gained maybe 14 HP with ECU & Vance & Hines can? Picks up quicker, have to be gentle getting back on power & seems smoother / seamless. Fuel air ratio about 14 which is maybe a tad lean.

[Hans]

I really dont get it... why adding more power to a 155/160hp touring-bike?  ???

Go get a ZZR1400 - or even better... a Hayabusa! Then you'll have enough power
in your (censur) dreams....
:P

[Kevin]

I can't answer for Andy but for me it's not about power, it's about grunt.

I currently have a Power Commander waiting to be fitted that came of our '07 GTR. It made a hell of a difference to the low down grunt of that bike and while the '10 bike isn't quite so bad it definitely does bog down out of corners when power is applied without changing down. I don't want to do the gear lever dance unless I have to and on a 1400 I really shouldn't have to.

Kevin

[Hans]

Kevin!

People have a lot of superstitions and tend to "believe in"performance graphs. The truth is probably the one that you might as well be pouring 5 liters of tomato sauce on your tank - and in the same faith "feel" that you get 5% more torque! A change (and failures), for example. 3-4% humidity will give you 15-20hk more on the graph. And the irony is that many people THINK their bike changed into something better, more torque/power, etc. 

Anyway... it's not my money spent on ...... well... "nothing"...     8)

[Kevin]

Mr. Moose, if you think I'm relying purely on performance graphs you are sadly mistaken. My 'data' comes from 33k miles on our previous GTR and 10k on the current one. I don't need a graph to tell me what's working and what isn't but before and after graphs do show the potential (unless of course you think that dyno's are alchemy in which case we'll just have to disagree).

Kevin

[Andy]

I really dont get it... why adding more power to a 155/160hp touring-bike?  ???

Go get a ZZR1400 - or even better... a Hayabusa! Then you'll have enough power
in your (censur) dreams....
:P

I wasn't after extra power just didn't behave like a 1400, should have more torque. Was much better in Scotland this weekend, just used 2nd & 3rd  :) I've got a GSX-R 1000 which is quick  :) Hayabusa'a are fugly...

[Kevin]

<snip> Hayabusa'a are fugly...

I used to think that but they grow on you (I suppose one would even get used to a large wart after a period of 'ownership'  ;D). It helps that I replaced the rear light cluster so it no longer looks like a baboon's backside when viewed from the rear!

I really like our Hayabusa but would readily admit the ZZR1400 is much prettier.

Kevin

[Hans]

Kevin: I do think that dyno's are "okay"...  *but*

I do not agree to major changes in terms GTR1400 gives a better result than the bike fitted as standard. The change in relation to all the changes people make are not ends with the result.

Incidentally, I can live with that we agree to disagree   8)

You can feel it... ie. the changes... but what about the "cool hard facts"... let me see how
changes look-alike on paper!   :P

[Kevin]

Unfortunately I don't have a stock vs. PC graph to put up.

I had our earlier GTR set up on a dyno twice. Once by a dealer just round the corner from me and later by Laguna Motorcycles in Ashford.

I was quite disappointed by the first set-up. They left a wire trailing out of the bike then implied it must be my fault. I received no graphs and the bike didn't feel any better, both of which surprised me. I haven't ever been back.

I took it into Laguna some time later for another go as I was sure a proper set-up would improve things. This time I did get graphs and while there's not a huge improvement in power the bike felt much better at lower rev's. I've attached one of the graphs from that run but it's not what you (or I) want to see, it's a first set-up on a dyno vs. second set-up on a dyno comparison so doesn't show much of an improvement.

I think the '10 model has more low down grunt as stock but can still bog down coming out of slow corners as I experienced going round (and round and round) the TT circuit so I intend having the PC installed to see if there's any improvement. A friend of mine is going to do it this time so I will have stock vs. PC graphs and I'll post them once it's done. I'm not sure when that will be as he's around 300 miles away so I need a time when we're not so busy. I suspect the results will be less dramatic than I experienced on the earlier model as this bike has more grunt to begin with.

A PC V didn't make a huge difference to our Hayabusa. It pushed power from 180.21 to 186.52 and torque from 107.1 to 109.4 which is pretty negligible.

Kevin

[Hans]

Kevin:  The blue and green graph is almost 7% different (humidity) which may also explain the measured difference in both torque and horsepower. I assume that this graph is measured with power commander fitted correctly? In this case, I can tell you that on a standard GTR1400 - vintage 2008/2009/2010 - can make ECU mapping with the same results. And incidentally, it is often seen that "stock" GTR1400, has these performance numbers.

As for tuning your motorcycle so you do not solve the problem by making installation of "Power Commander" as the only one. It actually makes no real difference - regardless of whatever you may feel when you drive! You need to actually get hold of tailpipes, mufflers, air filters, etc. to achieve "safe" performance improvement.

I usually say that "faith is in the church" and the facts going on with measuring instruments!
;D

But my point is still that (almost) is wasted effort to be searching with a Dyno-change in GTR1400, since this engine is as optimal from birth!

[Kevin]

<snip> But my point is still that (almost) is wasted effort to be searching with a Dyno-change in GTR1400, since this engine is as optimal from birth!

Yes of course you're right. How silly of me to think the '07 model is gutless at low rev's and the '10 model is better but not great.

It obviously needed two visits to the dyno before I was ready to worship at the PC altar but now you've set me right I realise my brain had been well and truly washed and the improvements were all in my mind. I guess people all over the world who have removed their secondary 'flies will be rushing to put them back in, Dynojet is going to experience a global slump in PC sales, Andy will be returning his ECU and riders, both members of the public and journalists, who have previously reported this lack of grunt will realise their blasphemy; HEAR THE WORDS "It is optimal from birth". We now understand this as a result of The Enlightenment you have given us.

I can sense you reaching for the keyboard but please don't rush on my behalf as I am well and truly educated and you must be tired after all that thinking. I certainly don't want to tax you any further by questioning the One True Way and have vowed not to question Your Words any further, I know when I'm beaten.

Kevin

[Hans]

Kevin: I'm certainly not tired of thinking! But I ask you just some simple questions based on my knowledge about Dyno and Power Commander - including GTR1400, which I have had the opportunity to test thoroughly. I live just fine with disagreeing with you - and I certainly hope also that you can live with my opinions. It's a free world ....

I would rather make our dialogue based on knowledge and facts .. and not so much faith and feelings! Agree?

Back to your attached graph. Explain to me what the setup is made ​​in relation to these two measurements. And explain to me why the torque and HP are different in the two measurements. What changes have there been on the dyno compared to the humidity? The last factor has famously important readout of torque and horsepower.

[Andy]

Dyno graph attached, make of it what you want :-)