Headlight problem, anyone good at reading the electrical schematic?

[Rusty]

Damnation Steve ... You know me too well  !   

[Kwikasfuki]

My guess is Asif will be able to identify the faulty component from the electrical schematic , he's good at all that stuff.

Nothing like putting me under pressure  In this case I don't know 

For sure, but I quite like learning about these sort of things - plus I get a fair bit of satisfaction from solving these sort of things myself.

Spot on. There's nothing like the feeling of doing something better or to the same standard as a pro.
Good luck with getting it sorted.

Edit: Just to add a little ancedote. Had one of the three Honeywell 2 port valves go on my central heating. Phoned a few plumbers and they all wanted in excess of £150 to supply and fit. Didn't seem to complicated, so ordered one of the net for £50. Wiring was a bit complicated, but plenty of photos and took one step at a time.

[Martin#30]

OK, getting a little further on this one now. I thought I may as well document it here in case it helps someone with a similar problem in the future.

Easy stuff first. I had already tested and ruled out the headlight relay under the forward tank cover, and all of the fuses. I know the bulbs themselves are good because the RAC temp fix (12V straight from battery to bulb) works.

Next was the High/Low beam switch on the left handlebar. Two obvious screws in the switch casing, and two smaller screws inside removes the switch itself for examination.



Two small plastic tabs split the switch itself, and voila, the brass terminals that will fur up and stop the switch working






Cleaned it with a file, put all this back together, but still no headlights.

OK, so onto the wiring diagrams. This was a real learning experience for me, trying to understand this and apply it to reality with switches, relays and wires running all over the bike.



I can see from this that the headlight relay needs 12V at the red/yellow wire to light the headlights. With the bike running, I am getting nothing through this wire but when I apply 12V to it in the high beam switch (number 7 in the bottom right), the lights come on.

So, tracing it further back, the high beam switch itself should be getting 12V down the blue/yellow wire. It is not getting it.



Blue/Yellow is fed from something called the relay box, and in particular, relay number 2. I can see that the relay should be receiving 12V down the grey wire, and then when the relay is energised, it should send 12V down the blue/yellow and ultimately into the headlights.

My trouble now is that this relay box is here, with the connector to relay number 2 arrowed.




To get at the wires to see if the relay is at fault, or if something even further back is broken, it looks like I need to drill out these security screws (circled).

Oh well, at least I am learning.

Oh, and Mr Kawasaki designer, why the f&*k do you need two relays, one at either end of the bike, just for the bl*&dy headlights.

Martin.

[BigAlan]

Don't drill out those security bolts, with some good grips I managed to undo them and replaced with standard stainless bolts.

Martin, on another note we both rode down to the lower lode in with some others including Wiltsguy (john?) is he still around?

Alan

[Richard]

Hi

I had to remove those security screws on mine to fit the speedo healer.
Use a good pair of wire cutters and grip either side of the head, this will give you enough grip to turn the screw.

Richard

[Andy]

There was another post about removing bolts using something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151065660975?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I used a blunt chisel :-)

Half split fault finding method was the way I was taught so if the power is present at the beginning but not at the end of the chain then go to the approximate middle point rather than going through every step. Then if voltage is present split the "half" again.

Got to be something common to main & dip lights. Flasher switch works in paralel to dip switch and would have been another check.

Hope you don't need http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Relais-Box-Steuerteil-Relaiy-Assy-27002-0007-Kawasaki-GTR-1400-/350986981370?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item51b8744ffa

[Debs]

I used a hammer and screw driver to remove the bolts. 

[Lonewolf]

They're pretty easy to remove, there's no need to drill them. 

[Martin#30]

You guys who claim those security bolts were easy to remove, I just want to say, you lucky, lucky bar-stewards    I am guessing 3 british winters have rusted mine solid.

This tool managed to remove one of them



A lot of drilling, and one of these got two more




1.5 hours, 2 dremel grinding discs and a lot of swearing later got the last one 

They must make these damn things out of diamond ......


Anyway, the good news is that Andy was right. It is that relay box that is at fault. The fault finding pages that Andy linked from the manual show that one of the diodes has gone, and alas the whole box is sealed.

I have ordered a second hand one from an '11 ZZR1400 for now. New ones are about £90, but hopefully £20 worth of second hand one will do the job for another few years.

Cheers all,

Martin.

[Rusty]

I feel sick.

[Charlie747]

I feel sick.

[Martin#30]

I feel sick.

Surely not from my mechanical butchery finesse ? 

Anyway, I celebrated too early. It was too late last night to test the bike after I put it all back together, and this morning, got on to ride to work and the alternator is not charging the battery 

I will obviously need a larger drill this time ......

Martin.

[Charlie747]

Surely not from my mechanical butchery finesse ? 

Anyway, I celebrated too early. It was too late last night to test the bike after I put it all back together, and this morning, got on to ride to work and the alternator is not charging the battery 

I will obviously need a larger drill this time ......

Martin.

And a very large  .............

When I ran a workshop any electrical fault especially if it was intermittent was always described as "Taking the kids to the dentist"  or  "A right royal pain in the  " 

My thoughts are with you on this difficult to find problem 

[Martin#30]

As I need the bike to get to work, I have been tearing into it again today to try and fix the charging problems.

Tested the alternator as the manual recommends, and I get 78V at 4,000rpm so I reckon the alternator is good.




Removed the reg/rec, and tested that too per the manual. My resistance values are very different on any measurement involving the 'W' pin, so I reckon it is probably goosed. Not enormously surprising after spending 50k miles being water blasted by road muck.




The failed reg/rec is probably what blew the diode in the main relay pack too, causing my loss of headlights.

Let's hope a replacement reg/rec fixes the issue, and I am not chasing yet more electrical faults afterwards 

Martin.

[Martin#30]

Oh, and to give you all a bit of a giggle, the replacement parts are going to take a few days to arrive of course.

My commute is 52 miles by motorway, 65 miles by normal roads. There is no car parking for me at work, and the only other bike I can use in the meantime is one of these beasts.



Yep, a whopping £200 worth of 2.4bhp 50cc Chinese vespa lawsuit dodging project bike I bought for my 12 year old to do up with me.

Wish me luck 

Martin.