Wood burners and fireplace cast iron insert

[Kwikasfuki]

Just looking to see if anyone has got a wood burner installed. Our heating bills have shot through the roof and am seriously thinking of putting a 12k wood burner in to heat most of downstairs. I can get a ready supply of hard wood off cuts relatively cheap, and I have two trees in my garden that may come down at some point. Once seasoned, they will heat the house up for a good number of years.

The previous owner put in a plaster case surround and then the heath around it, meaning we can't take it off without removing the heath. Also, removing it would mean damage to the wall paper and redecorating. One fitter has said he can remove the cast iron insert by cutting it out. To me it seems like a tough job. It would have to be a serious grinder to cut a cast iron insert. What's the best tool for removal?

[Bumpkin]

We converted from an open fire to a woodburner.   

It's a fairly aggressive change as most fireplace openings are nowhere near big enough, we've gone for an 8kw fire, but for 12kw you're definite;y going to be hunting the space.

Having said that, I took out the fireplace myself, the structural space in your fireplace is probablt just about adequate, most fireplaces will fill in to shring the hole down to size.

Things to bear in mind:

Woodburners are deemed more environmentally friendly, so if you go that way you theoretically can't go back to an open fire;
As a fire source they will need a direct outsode vent, although not large, and vertainly not a chinmey, you will notice the draught at times, well, the boss will!
As an asthmatic, I still notice the impact compared to central heating, and by the end of the winter my chest is getting desperate to miss the open fire - I am a serious asthmatic, so you may well never notice


Do I regret changing? No, they're great fires, far cleaner than open fires and always good to look at, but be aware, check the dimensions of the fire you want and remember you will ideally want 8" all the way around, 4-5 possible at the sides, but really 10-12 above

[O.C.]

As Bumpkin said you definitely need ventilation Asif, its very important !

I supplement wood with coal in my multifuel burner and it gets hot, a 12 k burner seems to be  a sizeable output and will use a good deal of wood, your two trees will have to be    big or you will have to use your burner only occasionally ! its amazing how much wood they get through.

The wood needs to be the right type and dry enough to burn so a wood store is fairly important too.

[viper]

The only comment i can make on wood burners , is supply of wood is getting expensive/hard to get  as everyone wants the stuff now, are you in a smoke free zone ? and i believe most of the heat from a wood burner comes from the Flue, people i know have had the flue going up through the first floor and out of the wall on the second story, in a fireplace setting 90% of the heat will go up the chimney, set ups ive seen the wood burner just sits on a stone hearth , keeping the burner door closed and transfering the heat through the internal flue will reduce the dust from the burner .

[Kwikasfuki]

We converted from an open fire to a woodburner.   

It's a fairly aggressive change as most fireplace openings are nowhere near big enough, we've gone for an 8kw fire, but for 12kw you're definite;y going to be hunting the space.

Things to bear in mind:

Woodburners are deemed more environmentally friendly, so if you go that way you theoretically can't go back to an open fire;
As a fire source they will need a direct outsode vent, although not large, and vertainly not a chinmey, you will notice the draught at times, well, the boss will!
As an asthmatic, I still notice the impact compared to central heating, and by the end of the winter my chest is getting desperate to miss the open fire - I am a serious asthmatic, so you may well never notice

Our downstairs room is massive and all the size calculations point to a 12kw burner. The existing fireplace is massive so fitting one in shouldn't be a problem. What size is your room? Someone has told me to get an 8kw and burn it hard. Apparently that will heat up the room significantly.

The one I'm looking at is room sealed i.e. it gets the cold air in from an external vent. I'm also mildly asthmatic - I assume its the smoke from when you load the wood into the burner?

As Bumpkin said you definitely need ventilation Asif, its very important !

I supplement wood with coal in my multifuel burner and it gets hot, a 12 k burner seems to be  a sizeable output and will use a good deal of wood, your two trees will have to be    big or you will have to use your burner only occasionally ! its amazing how much wood they get through.

The wood needs to be the right type and dry enough to burn so a wood store is fairly important too.

I'm going to start on a wood store this week. I know a place that sells off cuts for £10/tonne. I also know people that are giving up on wood burners and going back to CH because of the price of wood. However, because of the area I live in, there's plenty of trees going and it'll keep me fit and healthy I hope!

in a fireplace setting 90% of the heat will go up the chimney, set ups ive seen the wood burner just sits on a stone hearth , keeping the burner door closed and transfering the heat through the internal flue will reduce the dust from the burner .

Is the 90% figure true for wood burners? I thought they were 80% or so efficient, unlike the old open fires whioch were 90% inefficient due to the heat going up the chimney

[Bumpkin]

Our lounge is about 15' X 26' we use the wood burner to supplement the central heating, and leave the door to the hall open to let the heat around the house.

The outside vent was drilled during the install, just a small hole through the back of the fireplace.

Running full blast it makes way too much heat, but you do race through the fuel then.

As far as my asthma goes I don't think it's the damp from the vent, and you only really get smoke on lighting, so I try to steer clear until the chimney heats up, I actually think you get an odd smell when running really hot, I suspect it's from the dust literally being baked off into the room - hopefully most installations wouldn't have such a dusty house, but with an aga and afghans.....

If you do get one you have to get an ecofan! I think it does make a difference, but many don't, but they are so cool

[Kwikasfuki]

The 12kw isn't Defra approved so can't use that one. I did ring up the supplier and he said the 8k version is more suited. Run efficiently its more of a 10kw output and because of its efficiency will heat up a room that is 24x28x11 quite easily.

The problem is different installers have differing views. Some have suggested around 8kw, others 12kw.

I will be going for an ecofan as I have heard good things about them.

[flatfour]

Just had a woodburner/multifuel stove fitted (17th January). Asked three installers for quotes and was given two very different answers, the first company were going to install a free - standing stove, the second and third said only an inset would fit properly due to chimney constraints. This was the route taken.
Very happy with the results, however I understand that the HETAS Certificate is vital (i.e. from an approved installer) as otherwise in the event of a fire, the insurers could reject any claim. Also important if the house is sold at some point.
We needed to have a hardwood mantleshelf replaced with slate, as there was insufficient clearance between this and the stove to meet the HETAS requirements.
To summarise: NOT CHEAP - our 4.5kw unit installed and with the new mantleshelf cost almost £2,000. Uses lots of wood/solid fuel (it is only there as a feature and to supplement central heating) and I could easily spend £50 or more per week on fuelling it, but it is very nice to have.
I think, from experience now, that an approved installation is a must!

[Kwikasfuki]

To summarise: NOT CHEAP - our 4.5kw unit installed and with the new mantleshelf cost almost £2,000. Uses lots of wood/solid fuel (it is only there as a feature and to supplement central heating) and I could easily spend £50 or more per week on fuelling it, but it is very nice to have.
I think, from experience now, that an approved installation is a must!

£50 for a week on a 4.5Kw is alot! Which brand burner have you got? And how much are you paying for your wood?

I will be going Hetas registered. Don't want insurance etc voided.

[flatfour]

It's a Town & Country Stoves Runswick Multi - Fuel Burner. Fuels are from Dodds of Shipdam (they have a website with all prices on it) and we normally use a mixture of "Blaze", "Ecologs" or Logs. The fire is normally used daily for around 3 - 4 hours.

This level of fuel usage is comparable with other friends' comments with their multi - fuel stoves of various makes.

[Ros]

I'm not suggesting you do this but....

I lived for 6 years in a chalet at 850m altitude in the French Alps.  The ONLY form of heating we had was a 12KW wood burning insert.  Forgive me, but I just don't know the English terminology...   The whole place was about 80M² and very poorly insulated.  It heated upstairs and downstairs (although upstairs mostly due to the lack of insulation - so much so that we had to have the windows open sometimes even with -15°C outside!)

The amount of heat you can get off a 12KW one is tremendous.  You do need to install it properly though.  Ours had no "turbo" to drive the air and so was totally convective. 

The space above it (la hotte, in French) was where, in my case, most of the hot air was wasted because there was no upper and lower ventilation to get a good circulation going.  So I installed a fan that drew the hot air (out of the hotte only - not from the actual insert - so there was no CO risk) and distributed it into 3 rooms via some cleverly hidden ducting...  This fan would come on when the air temperature reached a certain point, and it's constant droning in the winter was what we put up with instead of freezing our arses.



We did go through 8 stere of wood per year though............... about 600 EUR
We had no other heating.

I am also asthmatic and I have to say the fire really didn't bother me much at all.

Also, when I lived in the South of France, I had a very old 17th century stone house with incredibly high ceilings.  This was also a PITA to heat in the winter, although it didn't get down to the kinds of extremes mentioned above.  It did get uncomfortably cold though and the electricity bills were outrageous because of excessive use of the heaters due to (again) poor insulation etc.

We installed an 6.5KW wood burning stove and we put a really long visible internal chimney pipe up to the ceiling in the lounge.  This gets RED HOT and heats the place up with ease.  Again, the amount of heat that this thing churned out was staggering...

It also chewed it's way through a lot of wood, but this is where I learned the importance of properly seasoned dry wood.  We used a lot of pine, which was good to get it started, but didn't last all night.  A good oak log went on last thing at night and this tended to last until morning.

No strange fan installations on this, as it was just a stand alone stove.  Brilliant though!


This was way before we renovated the place...

This is the one we had - just found it on the net :)

http://www.poeleaboisgodin.com/6-poele-a-bois-godin-regence-3144-3596150000375.html

Got gas central heating now - WHAT A LUXURY !!! 

Cheers

Ros

[O.C.]

Ros, is the last picture one of you praying for the fire to light 

[Ros]

  something like that...

[Kwikasfuki]

Thanks for the info Ros.

Originally the house was heated on oil and has big metal pipe ducts (and I mean big - 2ftx2f maybe) going around the house to distribute the heat. The previous occupants got rid of the oil heating and installed gas central heating. The big ducts are still there, but broken up and used to route wiring and central heating pipes.

Now, I like your idea of routing the heat throughout the house. I could reuse the ducts to make it easier.

When you say the burner needs to be installed correctly, what do you mean?

[Lonewolf]

This is Asif Towers as he likes to call his humble residence. It's going to take some heating.