My bike has suffered the same fault as Kwikasfuki's bike, in that the bracket that guides the screen has snapped off, I am using a Cee Bailey large screen and the bike has done 18,700 miles.
Sods law, the extended warranty has expired and it looks as if I am going to have to pay for any repair, so with this in mind, has anyone managed to buy one of these brackets and if so how much?
I have removed the part and I am going to try and get it welded back together, but I think this is a long shot, plus it looks as if the nylon bush has gone missing when it failed.
I am of the opinion that this part is not fit for use so I am going to approach Mr Kawasaki and hope for some help towards the costs of a new part, and ask if later ones have been made more robust.
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Ps Bigger screens = more force so be prepaired for this to fail if you have one fitted.
Ouch....I think the sum of £600 was bantered about before. :o
Before you contact Kawasaki, make sure you stick the original screen back on.
I don't believe the design has been improved on in later revisions. It really is bad product design, and the worse is the components aren't available separately.
My view would be that the part should be able to last more than four years and isn't fit for purpose. I would speak to Kawasaki and see what they have to say. I'd also research the law on 'fit for purpose' and use that as a backup.
Having worked in warranty for BMW, Mercedes and Honda I would advise not mentioning the big screen. Fit for purpose is defined by the original design parameters of the part, if you overweight the mechanism you compromise those parameters. It should last longer but the moment you fit a heavier screen you compromise your case, it's not right but it will be K's defence if given the chance.
It must be said though that such a major part should have a LOT bigger margin for failure, we are not talking about doubling the weight if the screen here.
Quote from: Cartman on September 24, 2011, 11:26:13 PM
Having worked in warranty for BMW, Mercedes and Honda I would advise not mentioning the big screen. Fit for purpose is defined by the original design parameters of the part, if you overweight the mechanism you compromise those parameters. It should last longer but the moment you fit a heavier screen you compromise your case, it's not right but it will be K's defence if given the chance.
I would agree don't mention the larger screen.
Quote from: Cartman on September 24, 2011, 11:26:13 PMIt must be said though that such a major part should have a LOT bigger margin for failure, we are not talking about doubling the weight if the screen here.
I would have to disagree. Although you aren't increasing the physical weight of the screen but because the screen area is larger you are significantly increasing the load the screen and the brackets has to deal with due to the wind pressure - which to be fair to Kawasaki it may not have been designed for.
Before you go start shouting "unfit for purpose" you also have to consider the reason for the failure - is it a design fault ie if it had been a standard screen would it have failed or is it a manufacturing fault which has taken a few years to appear? Sometimes things fail for no real obvious or apparent reason, a combination of reasons none of which where the major contributing factor or just plain and simple wear and tear which is unlucky and unfortunate.
If you want to put a case of unfit for purpose you would need to find other cases of the bracket breaking where only the standard screen has been fitted. Also you need to rely on Kawasaki's good will as it is outside the warranty.
Kind regards
Steven
Hmmmm, do I really want to get one of those huge Calsci screens after all?
The issue happens with the standard Kawasaki touring screen as well. On a windy day you can be doing a leisurely 50mph on the motorway and the screen is visibly being buffeted and the mechanism, at a guess, appears to be rocked back and forth. Over time, the mechanism will just snap and hence why its being seen on the earlier models.
When mine was replaced under warranty, it appeared that Kawasaki knew about the issue from the conversation I overheard on the phone. The bracket snaps and inevitably the brush gets lost, but Kawasaki force you to purchase the complete unit, including the gliding mechanism. Most would (albeit grudgingly) fork out between £100 and £150 for the bracket and brush. Asking for £682.79 is way too much, especially when the part is made of components.
Here's a view of the part (http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cmd=showdiagram&id=25103) no: 55036
You can't see the bracket that's broken, but it is a separate bolt on component.
I have had a very close look at this part now, and I have to say that it is going to snap at some point or another with the standard screen and it will only bring the inevitable forward by putting on a larger screen.
The stress that is put on this part by the screen at speed is going to be high and with the effect of wind buffeting, a stress fracture is going to happen at some point to all of them.
In my humble opinion, this should be made stronger to stop the failure, but it should be made available as an individual part so that it can be replaced when needed instead of having to shell out £600+ for the entire screen unit.
I am going to see if I can get this part welded and strengthened by a local firm and also have a word with Kawasaki customer services with regard to this part being made available seperately.
My advice to you all is to only use the large Kawasaki screen and do not go any bigger than this. Also, be ready for this to break at some point especially if you do a lot of high speed Motorway stuff, sorry to be so negative but I am very disappointed with the quality of this part, and the cost of repairs as this bike gets older.
The offending item.
Part2
Barry, that is exactly where my bracket broke from. I hope you can get it welded. Over time, I agree, this is going to be a issue for the GTR. Possible that someone will step in with an after market piece.
Now that you have it out, can you take a picture of the other side of the white holder?
Why dont we all lobby Kawasaki? If someone posts contact details on here for Kawasaki Customer Services and we all call them and express disatisfaction at the quality of this part perhaps they might do something about it. If enough people complain Kawasaki will have no option other than to address the problem.
Most companies will fob you off when you complain saying, "Well your the only person who seems to be having a problem". If they receive complaints perhaps their design people will look at how to avoid this part breaking under stress.
"Why dont we all lobby Kawasaki?"
I'd be up for that ...
looking at your photo's looks like the broken bracket is made from cast aluminium,dont think you have much chance of getting that welded succesfully to do the job,wonder if it would be possible to make the broken part of the bracket from steel and have it bolted with countersunk bolts the original part,just a thought dont know if it is feasable ,
Other side of white plastic bit, as requested.
I have been too busy today to contact Kawasaki, but I will try tomorrow
An after market made from steel would be far better as it would allow some flex and could be repaired if needed.
I like the idea of a steel bit made to fit the original, but I am no engineer so would need this done for me.......... any offers?
I have got a local firm that may be able to help so again time permitting I will contact them soon.
Thanks for the support with this, it is great to know you lot are there to run things by when the chips are down!
There's plenty of places that could make you one. I don't know what the charge would be for 1 unit compared to, say, 50. Main cost would be in getting the mold designed which shouldn't be rocket science I'd have thought.
Forgive me for not knowing exactly how such things are made... but...
I know someone who's an works somewhere that does something with something to make molds (dies?) or something like that. Does that sound like the sort of thing we'd need? It might be that I could get him to make something by way of practising what he does..?
Maybe I'll ask him what he does next time I see him!
:) Any port in a storm, go for it. the old part could be glued together for moulding purposes!
I spoke to a Gent from Kawasaki customer services a Mr Alan Lunn, and he is doing some research and is going to get back to me.
He is very knowledgeable and knew his products very well, it was nice to talk to someone at a big Company that actually understood what I was talking about, and could understand the problem.
I will let you all know how things progress.
If any of you have had this problem could you let Alan know at
[email protected] or 01628 856 750
If there is record of it happening there is more chance of Kawasaki reacting
does this part have to be moulded / cast from mild steel. would probably cost far too much for a one off.i was thinking that the broken part could be machined from mild / stainless steel and then bolted to the part of the mechanism that hasn't broken.
i think the way to go would be to take the parts to a small local machine shop and ask,doesn't cost anything to ask.
Sorry guys, but I am in the States at the mo, but I had a call from Kawasaki just before I left and they offered as a good will gesture to supply the part for £285. So this would be the entire unit, I will take a look at the repair option when home and if this is a no go then I will have to swallow hard and shell out!
At last I've managed to get the windscreen bracket repaired. I took it to a local engineering firm called Ellis & Son in Paddock Wood, Kent who did a fantastic job of welding it, and it looks like it will be a lot stronger now and more capable of dealing with wind pressure of larger screens.
They only charged me £20.00 for doing this, and in comparison with nearly £700 from Mr Kawasaki, even if it breaks again I am still on a winner. At least we all know now that this part can be welded without too much trouble.
If you are unfortunate enough to have this problem, contact Alan at Ellis & Son on 01892 725720 and remind him of the great welding job he did on Barry's Kawasaki. I am sure all this could be arranged by return of post.
One last thought, it may be worth glueing the nylon part into this bracket before it breaks so that it does not go missing if and when the bracket snaps, 'cos guess what guys, this part isn't available seperately either!
Thanks for the info Barry. Would they be able to strengthen an existing bracket that isn't broken?
Can't see why not, give them a ring, Alan is a very nice person to deal with, very helpful.
The only other way is to get some chemical metal in behind the nylon guide to make it stronger.
Said it before...it seems to happen to all with none standard Screens. Those CBailys big are they not. Bound to add pressure to the bracket.
Yes the big screens do put more pressure on the bracket, but more to the point, will these brackets fail with the standard screen on after years of use just down to the constant flexing?
If this is the case why should you have to shell out close to £700 to repair it?
If this part was available on its own at a cost of £50 I would have bought one fitted it and been prepaired to pay out again at a later date if it failed again, but with the stupid costs involved Kawasaki need to make this part available, or make it stronger, not just ignore its customers.
"Is this part fit for use?
Why can't we buy it on its own?
My one is fixed now, but my product faith is dented, and will I buy a Kawasaki next time ...............?
Quote from: Barry7 on November 15, 2011, 09:45:28 AM
My one is fixed now, but my product faith is dented, and will I buy a Kawasaki next time ...............?
If you find another manufacturer who makes a better bike than the GTR for a reasonable price please let me know. ;D
Quote from: mecki on November 15, 2011, 11:45:47 AM
If you find another manufacturer who makes a better bike than the GTR for a reasonable price please let me know. ;D
Exactly!!!! I owned a GS last year... fookin waste of money that was!... FJR..HOW MUCH!!!!! ??? Moto Guzzi sooooo very slooow... oh and before anyone points to the BMW... go into a dealers, order one and then wait for the salesman to say 'Would sir like wheels on his Bike?... they are of course an optional extra' 8)
And how about when your Kawasaki dealer says " Would sir like a new sreen bracket £700, or tyre pressure sensor battery, sorry sir whole sensor required £100 and you can't fit them yourself, or maybe a new set of discs, cos the old ones have warped, or even a new exhaust cos the paint is cracking.........
Now I know you can get problems with any make of bike, and maybe the new ones are better, all I am saying is that instead of just going back for another GTR when the time comes, I will be having a good look at other makes as well, now thats not to say the GTR is out of the running, because from a ride point of view it is by far the best bike I have owned, but servicing cost and reliability not the best at all.......
Try a BMW, if you want unreliable and expensive parts, my GS had done 5,000 miles and had already been in for 3 fuel guage sensors, and thats a pain in the arse repair as the tank needsto be drained and the bike stinks of fuel for days after. I had the gearbox seals go at 3800miles, and after had constant trouble with gear selection from nuetral to first.
My brother in law had an RT for a few years and the bloody thing was constantly breaking down with random electrical faults, I used to wind him up by saying it was really a Ducati in disguise.
I'm not saying that the GTR is perfect, far from it, but for me it's the best out of all of 'em....... yes there may be a problem with the screen fixing parts, but if you fit an aftermarket screen ya takes ya chance, and if you buy a bike second hand you do, of course, have no way of knowing if a previous owner has had a massive slab of perspex fitted.
I have a mate that works for Maclaren as an areo engineer, i asked him what the extra strain on the mechanism would be having a larger screen on...... he explained it to me and i fell asleep sometime during the next 10 mins ;D suffice as to say it effects the amount of pressure 'a lot'.. and also disruptes the 'high and low air pressure' balance causing the screen to vibrate.
If you think about it Kawaski spends loads of dosh putting the bike in a wind tunnel and working out areo, tollerances, etc and the first thing the customer does is stick a big lump of a screen on, which the aftermarket manufacter has done no testing on and to be honest dosn't really care.
Quote from: Barry7 on November 15, 2011, 05:30:28 PM
And how about when your Kawasaki dealer says " Would sir like a new sreen bracket £700, or tyre pressure sensor battery, sorry sir whole sensor required £100 and you can't fit them yourself, or maybe a new set of discs, cos the old ones have warped, or even a new exhaust cos the paint is cracking.........
Now I know you can get problems with any make of bike, and maybe the new ones are better, all I am saying is that instead of just going back for another GTR when the time comes, I will be having a good look at other makes as well, now thats not to say the GTR is out of the running, because from a ride point of view it is by far the best bike I have owned, but servicing cost and reliability not the best at all... ....Barry I do think you are being a bit harsh, not to mention dramatic relating to the screen issue, do we actually know how many have failed when used as the makers intended ie standard screen? There is not a manufacturer on earth that will uphold a warranty claim on parts that have been altered or overloaded by the fitting of aftermarket parts. Personally I am amazed how many people are constantly trying bigger/taller screens!!!if you want to sit in an antiseptic bubble with no sensation of the world passing by go in the bloody car. Also your point about the tyre pressure sensors complete with batteries being £100 pounds each!!!! Does the fact that in their life span of five years, it is quite possible that they may save you from having a very nasty accident and being seriously injured !!! or killed mean nothing to you? As has been said many times if you feel that this bike is not for you buy something else. But I think you will have to go a very long way to find a better value for money bike than the GTR. :)
Sorry if I have offended you 100 miles away, but a 50p battery in a sensor should not cost £100 to replace, and a £50 bracket should not cost £700. If you read my posts I keep on saying that the GTR is the best bike I have owned.
If you think the parts prices are fine then you are a wealthier man than me by far, and for a bike like this to have a 3750mile service interval is just wrong. ( I will be doing all the sevicing myself from now on, as the warranty is finished)
The first set of tyre sensor batteries lasted just over a year, and the discs ten months, so they must have done something because the second lot have lasted a lot longer, and on that basis if we all let Kawasaki know the problems, they can make a better bike.
sorry to bring this topic alive again. My bracket is gone and the broken piece is missing. contacted a friend to borrow his bracket. I will try to make another bracket from steel and if i succeed i will inform you. will update you soon.
on my search i found this solution also. but am going for manufacturing the whole bracket.
this link might be useful for strengthening your bracket before it brakes
http://gtr1000.yuku.com/topic/5629/Broken-Screen-support-bracket-advice-please#.U501n3ZKVvg
As promised I was able to fabricate a new bracket based the original bracket taken from a friend. The plastic piece was also fabricated from the same material. I will try fitting it tomorrow.
Here are the pictures
(http://im59.gulfup.com/5Xn28R.jpg)
(http://im59.gulfup.com/9vmVJx.jpg)
(http://im59.gulfup.com/t721dm.jpg)
(http://im59.gulfup.com/UhJNVw.jpg)
Sorry about the size of the pictures. Can someone please help to resize
Quote from: kfshman on July 01, 2014, 08:15:43 PM
Sorry about the size of the pictures. Can someone please help to resize
Pics are fine on my monitor.
Who did the work for you? That looks very very good
Now that is very very impressive. What do you think the manufacturing cost would be?
This is insanely interesting!
A steel factory did the job and it cost me 70 USD. The material is harder than the original and lighter. When I install it I will update you on the outcome
Quote from: kfshman on July 01, 2014, 08:58:00 PM
A steel factory did the job and it cost me 70 USD. The material is harder than the original and lighter. When I install it I will update you on the outcome
you got it done in the usa and got it shipped to the UK?
That is a very good price and knowing what Mr Kawasaki charge to fix this, you could have a ready made market ;-)
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on July 01, 2014, 09:02:53 PM
you got it done in the usa and got it shipped to the UK?
No, I have done the job in my country Saudi Arabia. But converted the money to US dollars to make it easier.
I never believed in purchasing the whole assembly for the bracket
Quote from: kfshman on July 01, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
No, I have done the job in my country Saudi Arabia. But converted the money to US dollars to make it easier.
Ah, ok. So about £44
That is a bargain
Excellent result there, you made that then for about £40 of our money. That's unbelievable. :clap:
Quote from: The Wolf on July 01, 2014, 09:35:45 PM
Excellent result there, you made that then for about £40 of our money. That's unbelievable. :clap:
:banana:
Double that... :banana: :banana:
Glad to inform you that it fits and it is working in a perfect conditions. Sorry Kawasaki your expensive whole mechanism assembly will stay in your store.
Happydayz :)
Sent from my iPhone by mini Elves.
Zeb
Quote from: kfshman on July 02, 2014, 08:21:59 PM
Glad to inform you that it fits and it is working in a perfect conditions. Sorry Kawasaki your expensive whole mechanism assembly will stay in your store.
That is good news, I'm just looking for the link now to order one from you, (just in case). :whistling:
I will try to make more of it. But would like to test it in riding first
I would think that you would be hard pressed not to sell them..could be quite the cottage industry.
Quote from: virginiajim on July 03, 2014, 02:55:57 AM
I would think that you would be hard pressed not to sell them..could be quite the cottage industry.
Perhaps try to sell them to Kawasaki just to prove that all their replacement parts don't really need to be priced so bloody expensive
I imagine that for quite a few of their parts there's quite a bit of engineering that goes on that needs to be paid for over the long period of time. Then there are the Saki meetings that just go on forever....not the cheap stuff, I might add. And let's not mention those boring meetings to decide on the color for next year. Lastly, Kawasaki has tremendous overhead costs to support the corporation. It ain't cheap being Kwackers and then they have to ship it wherever using the slowest boat they can find.
In this case, that bracket is being copied by someone with very low overhead with just the resources to get the job done and good job it is.
I can remember many years ago (I'm only 23) when I worked for the smallish company with the initials IBM, in their death and destruction division (FSD), that we absolutely hated when a new federal contract came back for re-bid. We would do all the engineering, spend all the time to get it right, and then some upstart like GE would come in and bid so much lower than us and if they won, would have to give the blighters our whole kit and kaboodle over to them. Made us angry it did.
In closing, I'm very glad there are people like kfshman who go the extra mile to build something a bit better.
The bracket after installation
(http://im46.gulfup.com/9wLJxT.jpg)
When do you start taking orders for that? ;-)
Quote from: Hans on July 05, 2014, 12:03:13 AM
When do you start taking orders for that? ;-)
I'm still in the process of testing it in riding. :scooter:
You might have some interest in that bracket in the States as well.
I am glad to inform you that i have tested the bracket on high speed with strong facing wind and it functioned perfectly.
Okay... Production ready for orders? ;-)
Price?
Quote from: kfshman on July 31, 2014, 04:09:12 AM
I am glad to inform you that i have tested the bracket on high speed with strong facing wind and it functioned perfectly.
So many places to go with that statement, but I'm interested as well on pricing.
I'm admin in the Facebook GTR1400 Group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KawasakiGTRowners/
...with well near of 3000 members! I took the advantage of posting your pictures/report about this Windscreen bracket - and not to my surprise there's A LOT of interest! Would you please consider if you will or can mass produce this bracket?
Cheers,
Hans
Any news for this??????
I have ordered 5 more brackets and will test them on the same bike. The question is how long will they stand. up to now my bracket is doing well. I have asked the manufacturer to make a cast and will meet with him soon. sorry for being late to respond i was on vecation in USA
Have just suffered the same fate and battling to find some one in South Africa to repair. Would be most interested in buying one of these- any news on price and availability.
Many thanks
the bracket is still strong and perfect. I got another original bracket from a wrecked GTR1400 in order to duplicate more brackets. My friend lost it :sad:. I can't use my current bracket to duplicate it. I need the original one. There are only 4 GTR1400 left in my country and that includes mine. I'm still trying to convince the other three owners to lend me there bracket.
I made a replacement, complete bracket for mine with stainless steel plate as I didn't fancy it breaking on holiday this year with Calcium Xl fitted! If you get no joy and want to make one get back to me as have template and can get steel / plastic as required. If you want to have a look I'm near Telford / Stafford.
Ok. Should have read all 5 Pages! :embarrassed:
south Africa's a bit of a jaunt, but template still available if required.
Thanks for the offer but, as you say , a bit far . Ended up making a plate out of 3 mm angle cut and bent to shape . Has worked well since June, however do take the precaution of supporting the top of the screen in cross winds when big trucks pass the other side.
Apologies for poor quality pictures .
Pic 3 shows the bracket with the 3 big holes for attaching to the bracket and the small hole in front for reinforcement through the slot in the guide bar.
Pic 6 shows the repair from underneath and the slot in the guide bar
Quote from: Barry7 on September 24, 2011, 07:33:15 PM
My bike has suffered the same fault as Kwikasfuki's bike, in that the bracket that guides the screen has snapped off, I am using a Cee Bailey large screen and the bike has done 18,700 miles.
Sods law, the extended warranty has expired and it looks as if I am going to have to pay for any repair, so with this in mind, has anyone managed to buy one of these brackets and if so how much?
I have removed the part and I am going to try and get it welded back together, but I think this is a long shot, plus it looks as if the nylon bush has gone missing when it failed.
I am of the opinion that this part is not fit for use so I am going to approach Mr Kawasaki and hope for some help towards the costs of a new part, and ask if later ones have been made more robust.
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Ps Bigger screens = more force so be prepaired for this to fail if you have one fitted.
Thanks for the heads' up. I too have the larger Cee Bailey screen (like most, I think the standard screen is a joke) - and am at some point expecting this to happen. I bought the bike in Feb 2013 with 2500km and now have 77,500km on it - so far so good. What can I do before it happens to strengthen? Any advice would be appreciated!
Quote from: Mogster on November 15, 2011, 04:03:31 PM
Exactly!!!! I owned a GS last year... fookin waste of money that was!... FJR..HOW MUCH!!!!! ??? Moto Guzzi sooooo very slooow... oh and before anyone points to the BMW... go into a dealers, order one and then wait for the salesman to say 'Would sir like wheels on his Bike?... they are of course an optional extra' 8)
Not much price differential between new FJR1300 and new GTR1400 here in Aus (in fact, FJR is cheaper). And it comes standard with electronic suspension adjust and cruise control. Not laving my GTR behind just yet, but 'just sayin' :smiley: