2017 GTR 4 year extended warranty usually kept in an integral Garage. When away on trips in damp conditions such as Alps or Scotland when I clean it after the trip I found what I can only discribe as stone chips scattered about randomly in the paint in places a stone couldn't get to i.e. behind thigh, no other chips on any other panel on the bike, not even front mudguard. 1st trip to scotland - 13 chips in the paint, May 18, rang dealer Seastar Superbikes, Newton Flotman, sent photos, we need to see it, took more photos. Kawasaki fob off said physical damage. 2nd trip 3500 miles round europe Sept 19 after cleaning - 56 chips, Took photos, went to Seastar took more photos. Couple of weeks later can you come in for more photos. 40+ mile round trip each time. Now they want to send tank to Kawasaki in London for them to look at it. Means bike in dealers for more than a fornight minimum, worried bike and tank might get damaged hanging about at dealers for so long and what can happen in the post. Decided to reject their last request and contacted a legal firm to help concerntrate the minds at Kawasaki. Giving them 14 days to replace tank or I will pursue them through the courts to recoup cost of expert witness, fuel tank, labour etc. Best discription on Glasurit site is blistering.
Much better now I've vented.
Quote from: Nitty Gritty on November 07, 2019, 07:57:13 PM
2017 GTR 4 year extended warranty usually kept in an integral Garage. When away on trips in damp conditions such as Alps or Scotland when I clean it after the trip I found what I can only discribe as stone chips scattered about randomly in the paint in places a stone couldn't get to i.e. behind thigh, no other chips on any other panel on the bike, not even front mudguard. 1st trip to scotland - 13 chips in the paint, May 18, rang dealer Seastar Superbikes, Newton Flotman, sent photos, we need to see it, took more photos. Kawasaki fob off said physical damage. 2nd trip 3500 miles round europe Sept 19 after cleaning - 56 chips, Took photos, went to Seastar took more photos. Couple of weeks later can you come in for more photos. 40+ mile round trip each time. Now they want to send tank to Kawasaki in London for them to look at it. Means bike in dealers for more than a fornight minimum, worried bike and tank might get damaged hanging about at dealers for so long and what can happen in the post. Decided to reject their last request and contacted a legal firm to help concerntrate the minds at Kawasaki. Giving them 14 days to replace tank or I will pursue them through the courts to recoup cost of expert witness, fuel tank, labour etc. Best discription on Glasurit site is blistering.
Much better now I've vented.
I understand where you are coming from having similar problems with Kawasaki customer service 🤬🤬
You two should combine forces.
Yes, there seems to be a common trend here doesn't there?
I know the powers that be at Kawasaki do monitor this forum so be careful not to disclose too much on here of your strategy and future plans.
Do BMW monitor this forum as well? :mfr_lol:
If I had a problem with the paint on my car door and took it back to the stealer I don't think anyone would expect to hear them say, we'll take the door off and send it to London via courier for someone to look at. We don't know how long we'll keep it, in the mean time your car's in and out of the weather, due to lack of space in the workshop, daily exposed to the elements. I don't think so. Now using consumer law not kawasaki warranty to resolve the issue, feel sorry for the orginal dealer that sold me the bike as they haven't been involved in the issue, although informed each time an issue arose, but will unfortunately be involved in the court case should this continue past the 14 day dead line. The first fault was orginally reported 7 months after the purchase date, as a consumer you have up to 6 years from that date to pursue your claim. The dealer involved gets one shot to resolve the issue or the legal wheels can be put into motion. I am looking to employ a paint specialist legal witness if anyone can recommend someone in or near East Anglia.
Quote from: PRD on November 08, 2019, 02:34:28 PM
Do BMW monitor this forum as well? :mfr_lol:
No, I do it on their behalf.
Quote from: Nitty Gritty on November 08, 2019, 03:44:50 PM
If I had a problem with the paint on my car door and took it back to the stealer I don't think anyone would expect to hear them say, we'll take the door off and send it to London via courier for someone to look at. We don't know how long we'll keep it, in the mean time your car's in and out of the weather, due to lack of space in the workshop, daily exposed to the elements. I don't think so. Now using consumer law not kawasaki warranty to resolve the issue, feel sorry for the orginal dealer that sold me the bike as they haven't been involved in the issue, although informed each time an issue arose, but will unfortunately be involved in the court case should this continue past the 14 day dead line. The first fault was orginally reported 7 months after the purchase date, as a consumer you have up to 6 years from that date to pursue your claim. The dealer involved gets one shot to resolve the issue or the legal wheels can be put into motion. I am looking to employ a paint specialist legal witness if anyone can recommend someone in or near East Anglia.
From my experience in these matters, if you have a dealer/manufacturer who is not being cooperative as Kawasaki don't appear to be, before anything goes to Court you are strongly encouraged to go down the route of a dispute resolution otherwise the Courts will recognise that you haven't explored all options to resolve the matter and will possibly refuse to hear your case unless you have tried the DR process.
If the DR process is unsuccessful then Court is an option. If the DR process is successful the company is obliged to rectify the problem. This will save you a fair few quid! I did this with a double glazing company a couple of years ago and used an expert from FENSA who found in my favour and the company were forced to rectify the problem within what I believe was either two or four weeks. It avoided a costly Court case and if the expert finds in your favour the company involved have to pay your fees for the expert which in my case were £300.
PS. forgot to say the expert travelled up from Devon to West Yorkshire and had an overnight stay in a local hotel, for which the costs were passed to the window company involved. So it doesn't really matter where in the UK you source your expert from, they will travel.
Thanks for the input.
I'm going by legal advice I've received from the company that will follow through with the court action should it be required. Apparently 15 months is more than long enough for someone to show some interest in dealing with the problem under kawasaki's warranty, now I'm using consumer law. Which is, unfortunate for the selling dealer as they've not been involved in any of the build up, they get one shot only to resolve the problem or the legal ball rolls, and as you say the costs rack up quite quickly. DEKKRA have been suggested to me as a sourch to find a paint specialist legal witness that can inspect the tank and come to court. There is Roy Humfreys coach painters near me that deals with painting helicopters and the like I imagine they will be specialists it's whether they offer a diagnosis service. I might approach them to see if they can assist. I have internet evidence of common paint defects that this I believe comes under, just need an expert to confirm my suspicions.
Quote from: Lonewolf on November 08, 2019, 10:25:30 PM
No, I do it on their behalf.
that doesn't surprise me. :mfr_lol:
Despite all this do you still like the bike?
Hi Pete,
Bikes great, proper bonded, performing brilliantly over my latest excursions. Never uncomfortable dispite the shite road surfaces I came across in Scotland/Italy/ Bosnia and the like. A bit addicted to the howl when winding on, which could get expensive, always gives the grin factor, always stable. Unfortunate that the engine runs so dirty. It's probably the only thing that would make me change. If citys continue with emission bans and it starts to affect when and where I can go somewhere. Luckily those citys in France that have introduced emission limits aren't on my radar anymore, been there done that.
what about you, are the bar stewards spoiling it for you?
It's just come to mind, on my second service at Seastar Superbikes in Newton Flotman. Although I was sat at the dealers for the entire time - from behind the counter "We've changed the battery in your keyless fob" not "do you want us to change you're fob battery". Ok I said, looked at the bill three quarters of an hours labour £52.50 + VAT = £66.00.
That was the end of there piece of rope. If it takes me 10 minutes I must have got distracted.
Sorry PRD, just realised you're not Pross, my mistake, miss read a previous post.
Quote from: Nitty Gritty on November 09, 2019, 12:18:08 PM
Sorry PRD, just realised you're not Pross, my mistake, miss read a previous post.
I nearly made a comment but thought better of it at the last minute! :mfr_lol:
:oops:
Quote from: PRD on November 09, 2019, 08:25:22 AM
Despite all this do you still like the bike?
I have 99% of the time never had issues with any of the bikes or cars that I have owned ... the turbo on an old Fiesta and the spokes and wheels off a GS that were all sorted under warranty. My mindset is that all these things are mechanical and occasionally they break and you may be the unlucky owner at the time .... despite these misfortunes I loved my little Fiesta and of course the GS and would never put anyone off buying one.
I hope you still like the bike .. when it,s all up and running the GTR is a super bit of kit. :yes:
Quote from: Nitty Gritty on November 09, 2019, 12:16:23 PM
Hi Pete,
Bikes great, proper bonded, performing brilliantly over my latest excursions. Never uncomfortable dispite the shite road surfaces I came across in Scotland/Italy/ Bosnia and the like. A bit addicted to the howl when winding on, which could get expensive, always gives the grin factor, always stable. Unfortunate that the engine runs so dirty. It's probably the only thing that would make me change. If citys continue with emission bans and it starts to affect when and where I can go somewhere. Luckily those citys in France that have introduced emission limits aren't on my radar anymore, been there done that.
what about you, are the bar stewards spoiling it for you?
It's just come to mind, on my second service at Seastar Superbikes in Newton Flotman. Although I was sat at the dealers for the entire time - from behind the counter "We've changed the battery in your keyless fob" not "do you want us to change you're fob battery". Ok I said, looked at the bill three quarters of an hours labour £52.50 + VAT = £66.00.
That was the end of there piece of rope. If it takes me 10 minutes I must have got distracted.
Hi nitty gritty. This is me Pross ( Tony ) lol 😆.
I love the bike it's my second one. First was an 09 in the faster black now owned by brizzle bob 👍.
As I said annoyed bye some Kawasaki personnel not all who don't give a toss about the product or their customers the only time I would look at changing is if the bike weight became an issue.
Bye the way grey is the second fastest colour don't believe people on here lol 😆 :mfr_lol: :popcorn:
Sorry Tony, my brain fart, age related I'm afraid. :stupid:
Was the bike supplied by Seastar? I just wondered, as I have bought two new Kawasaki's from them and had quite a lot of work carried out on other bikes by them as well. During these dealings (over some 20 years) I've never found them to be anything other than very cooperative and if they have supplied the bike, I would have thought that they might have helped more as a matter of goodwill. They've certainly taken that approach with me, when I've had the odd problem with a warranty claim that might be considered borderline.
If they didn't supply it however, the rules set out by Kawasaki for warranty claims will surely be followed precisely, as they have not made any money from the sale to be able to contribute from their side.
If it were me (with some 45 years of motor trade experience, much of it with manufacturers and importers) I would take it up with the supplying dealer, whoever they are. If you do end up with court action, it will, in any case surely be with the retailer, as the last link in the supply chain.
You've got it spot on Flatfour, thanks for your input. The bike was purchased from Preston Superbikes (to be fair to them they haven't been involved in the build up except for telling me my local dealer should sort it out for me) they are where the buck stops as far as litigation is concerned. I've no beef with either dealer, whoever assesses the photos of the fuel tank paint at Kawasaki London could do with coming to look at the "tank". Apart from that, I accept this is probably a rare maybe even a one off issue which is always difficult to claim under warranty. So after 15 months I've given up on the warranty route and I'm now pursuing the consumer rights route, just to bring the 15 month feck about to a conclusion. With your many years in the trade have you come across a paint assessor/expert witness by any chance as the nearest that I've found so far is in Bristol.
Most of my time working for manufacturers and importers was spent in the Far East (Japan and associated markets) or North America, so I have had little to do with UK outlets.
If it were my bike, knowing that you will have to have the tank repainted anyway, I would take it to a really good local body shop who have carried out paintwork to motorcycles before (they are around, the last one that I used for my restorations was near to Cambridge and although it has since changed hands, the same staff are probably in place) and ask them to offer a professional opinion as to the cause of the problem when they strip the tank for paint. (This should cost you little or nothing more than the repaint alone would).
I would pay for the work (and report) and then send copies of the entire invoice and report to the supplying dealer, together with a solicitor's letter demanding full reimbursement within a short period (perhaps 14 days). This is, in my opinion the quickest and easiest way to move matters along and, if it does not work you've left the option of the small claims court open. As to how the supplying dealer recovers their cost well, that is a matter for them to negotiate with the importer.
The engagement of an "Expert Witness" will take time and not actually move the job along, and you will anyway have to pay for their services yourself pending any possible reimbursement by the supplying dealer.
Anyway, that is how I would address matters. Whether you follow this route or not is entirely a matter for you and as I am sure you will understand, I will not be responsible for its outcome if you do decide to try it, succeed or fail!
Hi Flatfour,
thanks again for you're input.
The selling dealer is making efforts to resolve the issue, so things are on hold for a short while to let them have their shot at sorting it out. It could be a replacement or a spray job.
I would prefer to choose the painting company if it comes to respraying, but I'd be on dodgy ground after painting if there we're further problems. So I'll let them sort it, If it looks anything other than a new tank in the right colour I will go a similar route to the one you've discribed.
I'm a little concerned if they respray the tank the option for an experts oppinion has gone unless I pay for one beforehand. Vidoes have already been taken with the bike running and close ups of all the panels. A visit to my local spray shop, although they've no interest in going to a court to be witnesses, say warranty job, somethings wrong with the base coats.
UPDATE, Fuel tank delivered by hand to Preston Superbikes (selling dealer) as they wanted to see it, they had it a while. They maintained the same line - "shown it to two paint shops with over 30 years experience in the trade - as previous dealer - physical damage". Sent it back to me via a courier, even though I offered to collect the same way as it was delivered and warned they should pack it suitably to travel through a couriers system. It's arrived back proper knackered, front, back and sides bent dented and scratched . Contacted Preston Superbikes and so far total silence. Strangely the cardboard box doesn't show any signs of major impacts, which looking at the damage to the tank you would wonder whether the damaged happened before it was put in the cardboard box. Has the whiff of a possible insurance scam. I took the tank, once unpacked, to a paint shop near me just to check I wasn't barking up the wrong tree. Diagnosed - Micro blistering, no hesitation, any paint shop worth their salt would recognise it. So slightly reassured I wasn't going completely barking...
As suggested earlier, a good local paint shop and a solicitor's letter might have been the way to move this forward.
Years ago when I worked for a vehicle manufacturer we had lots of problems with micro blistering of paint, generally thought to be caused in our case by top coat being applied before primer was fully hardened. Eventually the top coat would craze after weathering, leaving the impression of "worms" under the paint. A bare metal strip was the only real cure at that point.
In our situation, this most frequently occurred when a model was on "run out" in terms of production and the track in the factory was being used to produce the new vehicle, with a few of the outgoing model being squeezed in when time allowed.
Whether or not this was the case with your bike who knows, however the GTR was probably in its last few months of production when yours was made?
Anyway, I hope that you find a satisfactory resolution to your problems!
Quote from: Nitty Gritty on December 11, 2019, 06:16:28 PM
UPDATE, Fuel tank delivered by hand to Preston Superbikes (selling dealer) as they wanted to see it, they had it a while. They maintained the same line - "shown it to two paint shops with over 30 years experience in the trade - as previous dealer - physical damage". Sent it back to me via a courier, even though I offered to collect the same way as it was delivered and warned they should pack it suitably to travel through a couriers system. It's arrived back proper knackered, front, back and sides bent dented and scratched . Contacted Preston Superbikes and so far total silence. Strangely the cardboard box doesn't show any signs of major impacts, which looking at the damage to the tank you would wonder whether the damaged happened before it was put in the cardboard box. Has the whiff of a possible insurance scam. I took the tank, once unpacked, to a paint shop near me just to check I wasn't barking up the wrong tree. Diagnosed - Micro blistering, no hesitation, any paint shop worth their salt would recognise it. So slightly reassured I wasn't going completely barking...
Unreal .... forgive me for asking but have they returned the correct tank
I feel you have galloped past the point of no return and now need to take this matter to Court. It's a matter of principle now, obtain a professional report from the company who gave you the confirmation which you have referred to, submit a copy of it with a seven day deadline and then commence proceedings through the small claims Court. Contact every bike magazine you can thing of, contact trading standards, contact Kawasaki direct, consider stating they are in breach of contract for not entertaining the extended warranty. Take advantage of Social Media to get the attention of Kawasaki.
And if all else fails question their parentage :mfr_lol:
Fuel tank update:- it has returned from the paint analysis company. Paint too hard, over stoved (I assume too hot when painted), Paint too thick on the top of the tank (lowest 250 micron, maximum 300+). Painted more than twice, Paint too thin on the underside (35 - 45 microns) causing premature rusting. Conclusion "NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE", get in there, couldn't get a better result. Packaging inspected that the tank was returned in. Conclusion - Damage didn't happen inside carton, no paint residue present from impacts that knocked paint off the tank, carton shows no signs of the major impacts the tank must have gone through - cost £192. £100 odd quid for the county court and hopefully Bobs your uncle. Getting xmas out the way, then totting up the costs involved in dealing with this issue, Invoice in - 14 days to pay - then court appearance - be a change not to be in the dock myself
Excellent news, you would think common sense would now prevail and they would just reimburse the costs without challenging the results and wanting another personal inspection.
Fuel tank paint update;- Nailed it, Case won, Judgement awarded. Preston Superbikes responded to a county court summons with - total silence. Says a lot about customer care, if they can fob you off they will, I assume hoping you'll go away. If in the future you're in the market for a new bike or new kit, I would avoid, shop elsewhere.
I wish more people would do what you have done, it would raise standards of customer care at dealers and most likely also raise the standard of workmanship which goes into our expensive bikes. Congratulations :clap:
Excellent. Small claims court can be very effective.
So although Judgement was awarded in your favour, what are the consequences for Preston Superbikes? Also getting a Judgement and getting the other half to comply with it are not unfortunately one and the same.
And now I guess you'll have to start going done the road of High Court bailliffs to get the money
Wait and see what the response is. Never had an issue getting a judgement enforced in the past. With possible non essential business closures and civil court closures a possiblity I might have to wait a while but I'll go through the legal motions and see how it pans out. Strange times we are living through. Normally the losing party pays the increased costs involved if they don't comply/obstruct/ignore a court ruling. Hopefully it'll be straight forward. On the brightside as the successful claim was for a manufacturing defect, the bike is covered for upto 6 years for any defect even if unrelated to the paint work under present consumer law 2015.
Yes many retailers plead ignorance to the 6 year warranty and many consumers aren't aware of it. It's always a good Ace to fall back on.
Settlement received :clap:
Excellent result. All your legal or Court fees covered I hope.
Satisfying result :yes:
Well done.
Great news.
Thanks,
Got everything I wanted to cover the retail price of replacing the tank, decals, pads etc all fees paid for specialist paint report and court fees. I was rung by the general manager yesterday, he said they hadn't received the court papers, that's why they hadn't responded to the courts. They were not ignoring the situation, they just didn't know about. Well, they had almost 2 years to respond in an appropriate way, so that fell on stoney ground. They received the judgement sent to the same address by the court, as was the summons, make your own assumptions.
I could post the paint analysis report it may prove relevant to others. Would I have to use my own words to avoid any copy write issue? I'm sure someone on here can advise whether it would be OK or not.
Pre Christmas I was looking around for a replacement tank to put on the bike, while this resolved itself. I noticed when zooming in on fleabay photos of used tanks that most had the same marks in the paint as my own, only not as many. I ended up buying a brand new unused tank from fleabay in the correct colour for what was a very reasonable price. The first time I used it, a short journey (30 miles), the fuel tank paint had a chip in it. The same type as on my original tank, in what could be discribed as the groin area. I've a feeling this fault wouldn't come as a total surprise to Kawasaki. Might be why the warranty specifically doesn't cover paint chips. I'm now having the original tank shot blasted, polymer coated and resprayed by a dogs nuts paint sprayer, as I've no faith in an OEM replacement. Which I understand are on back order and have been for some considerable time, nothing to do with the virus.