KHI update the GTR for a future model year,, what would you want to see on it for it to fully compete in the Sport Tourer market.
I'll start the ball rolling :yes:
Cruise control
1441 engine
Instrument panel like the Super Tenere (for example )
Adjustable foot pegs or some seat adjustment for taller people who have dodgy knees.
Anti BMW missile system!
About another 15-20 horses
Cruise control ..mebbees...slightly more relaxed bar position ... another gl8ve box on the right side .....extra aux power socket on left ....... a dash that DOESN'T read LOW FUEL but aksherly counts the mileage down ... Anti BMW / HONDA seeking rockets :mfr_lol: ... and a power socket in the top box ...1441 engine and DITCH the stooooopid kawasaki service schedule at 3.5 k .. I recon if they made it every 6 k more folk would go for the GTR but the "safety checks " every 3.5k should be dropped .
So basically.. the b.m.w :mfr_lol:
More power, built in sat nav dash , cruise , to make me buy another it would have to have some big leaps forward , am more than happy with my 2010 caf model , the latest one only has a few tweaks no way near anough to make me want to upgrade :scooter:
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 26, 2016, 06:03:41 PM
So basically.. the b.m.w :mfr_lol:
Nah :mfr_lol: the Kwak doesn't break down or lunch it's diff :mfr_lol:
Quote from: Wookie on November 26, 2016, 06:10:35 PM
Nah :mfr_lol: the Kwak doesn't break down or lunch it's diff :mfr_lol:
I've always been a kawasaki fan owning no fewer than 16 since the late seventies so can't bring myself to say a bad thing about them :no:
AS far as the b.m.w new model water cooled R1200 GS LC TE is concerned.. I can simple can add this :smiley: :grin:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/r1200gs/2013/
READ AND WEEP :mfr_lol:
Happy with most of the bike as it is.
Engine - Good as it is - ample power for a big bike
Cruise control - Good
Adjustable seat - Good
Service intervals longer - Good
Gadgets - Not keen on too many although i would like a digital speedo.
All the above are good choices but would inevitably increase the purchase price and add weight which would would be my biggest concern. I would not pay more than 14K for a bike. I think the next gen GTR should also be a maximum 275kg which would also give a better power to weight ratio so no need to go bigger capacity engine.
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 26, 2016, 06:32:43 PM
I've always been a kawasaki fan owning no fewer than 16 since the late seventies so can't bring myself to say a bad thing about them :no:
AS far as the b.m.w new model water cooled R1200 GS LC TE is concerned.. I can simple can add this :smiley: :grin:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/r1200gs/2013/
READ AND WEEP :mfr_lol:
Yep .. good bike but let down by megga breakdowns .. and let's face it .. as long as the individual is happy with what ever is vibrating between their legs ..then that's all that matters :smiley: :yes: :yes:
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 26, 2016, 06:32:43 PM
I've always been a kawasaki fan owning no fewer than 16 since the late seventies so can't bring myself to say a bad thing about them :no:
AS far as the b.m.w new model water cooled R1200 GS LC TE is concerned.. I can simple can add this :smiley: :grin:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/r1200gs/2013/
READ AND WEEP :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol: I'm not about to weep Dave :no: :mfr_lol:
Isn't a new GS 1200 due to be launched next year featuring a repositioned clutch plus other improvements ?
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 26, 2016, 06:32:43 PM
I've always been a kawasaki fan owning no fewer than 16 since the late seventies so can't bring myself to say a bad thing about them :no:
AS far as the b.m.w new model water cooled R1200 GS LC TE is concerned.. I can simple can add this :smiley: :grin:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/r1200gs/2013/
READ AND WEEP :mfr_lol:
I know that they get great reviews and I'm sure the sales figures don't lie, but -
1 They are as ugly as fack
2 I know two people who previously owned GS's and both said they where unreliable and expensive to service and repair, one went for a Triumph 800 and the other a KTM and both say their new bikes are better than the BM.
Can use the oem exhaust bazooka for that :banana: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: PRD on November 26, 2016, 04:06:37 PM
Anti BMW missile system!
How bout standard satnav, redesigned slightly noisier exhaust,1.0 ltr supercharged lump,indicators built into wing mirrors,standard heated seats,usb power point left side front panel and a partridge in a pear tree 😃👍 o and a champagne cooler just in case 😉
Quote from: O.C. on November 26, 2016, 09:37:07 PM
:mfr_lol: I'm not about to weep Dave :no: :mfr_lol:
Isn't a new GS 1200 due to be launched next year featuring a repositioned clutch plus other improvements ?
well Rog.. yes there is a new revised 2017 GS.. but it's more for off road use to make the bike more comfortable for standing upright when off roading and the other upgrades are the likes of the foot rests/rally seat/rad guards/winglets theses are what you can buy to add your self.. the suspension/pro modes/lean angle sensitive control/cornering a.b.s/dynamic e.s.a/electronic suspension package with real time damping adjustments/ with self leveling /black train drive is already on the 2016 TE "touring edition" model.. the clutch as also been repositioned from the rear to the front and is a now a wet clutch on 2013 model onwards. there is a significant change between the the basic GS the 2017 GS but if you go for the TE 2016 model then the bike as the same equipment package as the 2017 :smiley: the changes 2016 TE to 2017 gs I.E knee area/foot pegs/rad guards/rally seat are for off road use and in my view are minor and not required for road use.
Quote from: davetherave on November 26, 2016, 09:59:58 PM
I know that they get great reviews and I'm sure the sales figures don't lie, but -
1 They are as ugly as fack
2 I know two people who previously owned GS's and both said they where unreliable and expensive to service and repair, one went for a Triumph 800 and the other a KTM and both say their new bikes are better than the BM.
What a load of :shit: :yes: first service is £110.00.. second is £220.. major service valve check e.t.c is £300.. the service interval is 6,000 miles. most bikes are 4,000 miles.. you don't need to take half the bike apart for service that's why it's not as expensive.. it may not be the best looking bike in the world. but it is a adventure bike if I wanted to impress my mates or the ladies with looks I need a time machine to go back to my twenties :grin: or buy the H2 ltr but I don't give a :shit: what people think :no: All bikes can and will break down but the gs is a proving success all over the world and when the sale of a bike exceeds all else.. the odd break down in comparison to how many are out there is very little concern to me and to other owners :smiley: I needed a more comfy tourer with the looks of a adventure style bike and after extensive reviews and various test rides the b.m.w came out on top. ok it's not cheap to buy if you want the top of the range gs te lc but you buy what you can afford and enjoy :smiley: I'm sure your mates are happy with the ktm and triumph but I'm also happy with the gs they made their choice as I made mine. but do get your facts right and read unbiased reviews before commenting on bikes.. if you take noticed of the odd one or two who have a different bike than the one they are :shit: ing on.. then you will find every bike as a problem lurking and more often than not it's just the odd one that may turn out to be true and in most circumstances it's the rider who as caused the fault in the first place.. with today's major motorcycle manufacturers and technology there is so no bad motorcycles out there.. only bad riders and bull :shit: ters.
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 27, 2016, 08:49:09 AM
well Rog.. yes there is a new revised 2017 GS.. but it's more for off road use to make the bike more comfortable for standing upright when off roading and the other upgrades are the likes of the foot rests/rally seat/rad guards/winglets theses are what you can buy to add your self.. the suspension/pro modes/lean angle sensitive control/cornering a.b.s/dynamic e.s.a/electronic suspension package with real time damping adjustments/ with self leveling /black train drive is already on the 2016 TE "touring edition" model.. the clutch as also been repositioned from the rear to the front and is a now a wet clutch on 2013 model onwards. there is a significant change between the the basic GS the 2017 GS but if you go for the TE 2016 model then the bike as the same equipment package as the 2017 :smiley: the changes 2016 TE to 2017 gs I.E knee area/foot pegs/rad guards/rally seat are for off road use and in my view are minor and not required for road use.
cheers Dave, that clarifies the situation ~ I had heard about some changes to the GS but my info came to me second hand so I didn't know any specifics :clap:
You know as well as I do that the BMW product will get a rough ride on non BMW forums, so there's nowt personal in the responses, and every one should choose a bike that meets their ever changing requirements and one that makes them happy :yes: I have tried other makes in the recent past :oops: but have come back to the GTR which I acknowledge is a bit 'dated' when compared to the latest crop of bikes that are available today, but I like it, it makes me smile and it has a road presence which is satisfying.
The day will come (it almost did a while back) when I will be forced to change for something that I'm more easily able to manage, I don't know when that will be, hopefully in the distant future.
Anyway enjoy your GS. ~~~I did have a 2010 GSA and didn't like it, since then I haven't ridden the latest version but have heard lots about it, mostly good some not so good, but hey, isn't that the way of things.....maybe one day I'll try the latest GS and then I'll be able to draw my own conclusions. :yes:
Quote from: O.C. on November 27, 2016, 10:41:04 AM
cheers Dave, that clarifies the situation ~ I had heard about some changes to the GS but my info came to me second hand so I didn't know any specifics :clap:
You know as well as I do that the BMW product will get a rough ride on non BMW forums, so there's nowt personal in the responses, and every one should choose a bike that meets their ever changing requirements and one that makes them happy :yes: I have tried other makes in the recent past :oops: but have come back to the GTR which I acknowledge is a bit 'dated' when compared to the latest crop of bikes that are available today, but I like it, it makes me smile and it has a road presence which is satisfying.
The day will come (it almost did a while back) when I will be forced to change for something that I'm more easily able to manage, I don't know when that will be, hopefully in the distant future.
Anyway enjoy your GS. ~~~I did have a 2010 GSA and didn't like it, since then I haven't ridden the latest version but have heard lots about it, mostly good some not so good, but hey, isn't that the way of things.....maybe one day I'll try the latest GS and then I'll be able to draw my own conclusions. :yes:
didn't expect the b.m.w to get glowing reports on any other site except b.m.w :laugh: but what I expect is what I would do before making comments is reading unbiased reviews and taking into considering the % of break downs against the amount of units sold world wide also taking into account that the odd monkey with a hammer with little or zero knowledge of the workings of the modern motorcycle which of today are very complicated machines.. taking noticed of what is said on forums "on how to make your bike go faster/sound better then the idiots start dismantling their bike that's when modern bikes break down :yes:
As you know I've had 3X ZZR 1400's 1X GTR1400 and 1 X VERSYS 1000 all excellent machines :smiley: However if I was to take noticed of what the prospective forums members had to say or other bike owners well.. most likely would never have bought one if common sense didn't prevail :no: let's quote the problems that I came across on forums or from other bike owners just to name a few!! :smiley: the zzr1400 warp discs .. Ho! best replace mine before that happens of course nothing do to with the fact they have heated them up on a track day or miss use such as not releasing the brake fully.. or riding around the alps fully loaded with the wife on back and on the brakes doh! theses o.e.m discs are designed for road use so it's highly unlikely normal riding will warp discs more like rider error. The GTR 1400 well that seemed to have the same problem with warp discs and the shaft drive failing which it may have done on the odd few.. the screen mechanism use to break.. nothing to do with the fact that the odd monkey as fitted a much taller screen which as put stress on the mechanism which is was designed for a o.e.m screen half it's size. even the o.e.m tyres got a bashing only lasting 1,500 to 2000 miles well the zzr1400 as 218 b.h.p on full suck no tyre will take that abuse.. also the standard bridgestone s20r evo was crap around corners and :shit: in the wet.. never once did the o.e.m tyre cause me any concern when keeping my mates hayabusa behind me in the alps.. same the GTR tyres 140 b.hp is going to be hard on tyres no matter what tyre you fit. Versys 1000 similar things.. but I never had any of theses problems with either the ZZR/GTR or versys 1000 :no: maybe just maybe.. I left things alone and didn't fix something that didn't need fixing :smiley:
As far as the b.m.w r1200 gs lc te is concerned.. yes it as been vastly improved over the air cooled older model and yes heard some stories of this and that but only off riders who have not got one or own a bike that's in the same category.. funny that isn't it! but when the time is right and you do fancy a change I do recommend you at least test ride the new model R1200 gs te it's not to everybody's liking but you will find a massive improvement over the older model in power/comfort and technology. and let's look into the facts.. even the old model GS As been around for nearly 40 years with massive sales world wide .. so if the odd few do cause problems "it's the law of averages" but you either like the gs or not.. there are plenty of adventure bikes out there with out the gs price tag but in my opinion not half as good but there again like others I'm biased :grin: you pay or money and ride :yes:
Well said Pay Ya Money and RIDE. !!
Now stop the willy waving ladies and let's get back to takeing the piss
Now kiss and make up :ohplease: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: Wookie on November 27, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
Well said Pay Ya Money and RIDE. !!
Now stop the willy waving ladies and let's get back to takeing the piss
Now kiss and make up :ohplease: :mfr_lol:
Ha! BOLLOCKS.. can't beat a good rant.. :mfr_lol: just wish my very old than older mate Geoff would rejoin the fun :yes: we use to have some good laughs taking the piss :smiley: even suggested we had a whip round for a Motorized zimmer frame for his next transport :mfr_lol:
That's what I love about every forum I've been part of, the -ve's are always the most aired! :yes:
Boring bigging up the good stuff 'init! :yawn:
45+ motorcycles in me career, 17 cars, all had their idiosyncrasies (big word score! :wink:) but loved every single 1 of them!.......even the much slated air cooled GS1200!
Suffering and overcoming problems is part of the joy of ownership.....just like being married! :smiley: (Don't tell Jen that!)
As me dad, God bless him, said to me once, "just get yer leg over it and ride it for what it's worth!" :clap:
Wot ? He said that about Jen :mfr_lol: or the numerous motorcycles :banana: :mfr_lol:
But seriously snowy ya dead rite .. like ya self every make or genre of mc wook has had some I wish I never sold others am glad ah did .. but rode em like ah stole em and loved em all .
And it's bikers nature to tek the wee wee out of each others bikes :biker3:
And it like tyres .. there ain't a bad tyre just different ones :popcorn:
Quote from: Wookie on November 27, 2016, 03:41:13 PM
Wot ? He said that about Jen :mfr_lol: or the numerous motorcycles :banana: :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol: 5th ammendmant on that! :mfr_lol:
Anyhooo, back on topic, cruise control, loose a few KG, plenty enough power, but an adventure style riding position!
Quote from: snowy on November 27, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
:mfr_lol: 5th ammendmant on that! :mfr_lol:
Anyhooo, back on topic, cruise control, loose a few KG, plenty enough power, but an adventure style riding position!
Would you Adam and eve it.... we are back to the R1200 GS LC TE again :smiley: just missing the elec suspension/rider modes/ built in and e.c.u compatible sat the list is endless :smiley: :whistling: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 27, 2016, 04:23:11 PM
Would you Adam and eve it.... we are back to the R1200 GS LC TE again :yes: just missing the elec suspension/rider modes/ built in and e.c.u compatible sat the list is endless :smiley: :whistling: :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol: No falling out or "willie waving " from me I'm just enjoying a healthy debate.
Like I said we all have our preferences as it would be a boring world if we all liked the same bike.
I'm pleased you like your GS Dave, and I well remember your enthusiasm about your other new bikes in the past, good on yer :clap:
Now lets get back on topic :offtopic: cos I'm interested to hear what other opinions are out there :yes:
Quote from: O.C. on November 27, 2016, 04:34:56 PM
:mfr_lol: No falling out or "willie waving " from me I'm just enjoying a healthy debate.
Like I said we all have our preferences as it would be a boring world if we all liked the same bike.
I'm pleased you like your GS Dave, and I well remember your enthusiasm about your other new bikes in the past, good on yer :clap:
Now lets get back on topic :offtopic: cos I'm interested to hear what other opinions are out there :yes:
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 27, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: O.C. on November 27, 2016, 04:34:56 PM
:mfr_lol: No falling out or "willie waving " from me I'm just enjoying a healthy debate.
Like I said we all have our preferences as it would be a boring world if we all liked the same bike.
I'm pleased you like your GS Dave, and I well remember your enthusiasm about your other new bikes in the past, good on yer :clap:
Now lets get back on topic :offtopic: cos I'm interested to hear what other opinions are out there :yes:
your as bad as me for throwing fuel on the fire :mfr_lol:
Quote from: 2kwacks on November 27, 2016, 04:48:20 PM
your as bad as me for throwing fuel on the fire :mfr_lol:
Is that when the Beemers fuel pump sprays it allover the place :mfr_lol:
Aye the GTR next gen could do with a 5 litre bigger tank .
Back on topic O.C :mfr_lol:
OK.. BACK ON TOPIC :smiley:
did think of getting another GTR my 2010 model didn't give me any problems in the 3 years and the 3,200 mile Europe/1000 miles devon and cornwall and the Scotland 900 mile and the very enjoyable cotswolds lower lode GTR meet weekend trips :smiley: But the reason for getting rid of the zzr was due to me getting closer Rog's and Geoff age :sad: found the riding position on my recent 2015 zzr1400 3,000 mile europe trip was starting to take it's toll on my wrists and back.. so time to get a more suitable bike for my needs :yes: didn't want a 300 kg plus bike :no: great bike but the model as not changed since my last 2010 model. if kawasaki had significantly upgraded the gtr then may have been tempted but to fit the goodies the b.m.w as the retail price would go through the roof and their sales would have dropped.. kawasaki know there is a market for a big tourer so I don't think kawasaki will give that market up :no: but don't expect big upgrades kawasaki will want to keep the price as low as possible to stay competitive in the very competitive big bike touring market.. even just fitting built in up to date cruise control will put £400 on the already retail price of the grand tourer of nearly £14,000. I assume they will use the 1441 zzr engine to meet the new emissions your not going to get for nothing :no: even with just modern built in cruise control and the 1441 engine you will most likely be looking at a retail price approx £15,000 and the GTR will still lacking spec. it would not surprise me if kawasaki did dropped the gtr :sad: kawasaki are more interested in how many units they can sell not what riders want :no: by upgrading the gtr to keep up with technology kawasaki know the price they will need retail at will reduce sales to the point it would not be profitable to continue production :sad:
Quote from: Wookie on November 27, 2016, 05:08:20 PM
Is that when the Beemers fuel pump sprays it allover the place :mfr_lol:
Aye the GTR next gen could do with a 5 litre bigger tank .
Back on topic O.C :mfr_lol:
Ho.. you just at to didn't yea :hammer: :smiley:
I don't think, and I do hope I'm wrong, but I don't think the gtr will be back. Suspect mr k will just keep the Versys GT version going. Not many units of Gtrs were being sold over here.
Quote from: PRD on November 27, 2016, 05:58:34 PM
I don't think, and I do hope I'm wrong, but I don't think the gtr will be back. Suspect mr k will just keep the Versys GT version going. Not many units of Gtrs were being sold over here.
I'm afraid you may be correct :sad: time's are changing :yes: these adventure bikes like the GS TE LC/ktm and ducati multistrada are packed with elec goodies and technology tour in comfort handle the twisties do serious off road riding and go like the clappers when you want to have a blast. the versys 1000 is a great bike :yes: had the 2013 model but it is a budget bike.. maybe kawasaki will heavily revise that to get into the very competitive up and coming adventure market :smiley: one thing I'm sure about is kawasaki won't be left behind they will concentrate on what the market wants.. it would not surprise me if kawasaki did decide to get big into the adventure market they would be up there with the GS/ktm and multistrada :grin: but there again price would be a big factor for the rider who uses a bike for a second mode of transport.
Cup holders.
Quote from: virginiajim on November 28, 2016, 12:52:54 AM
Cup holders.
:mfr_lol: maybe air conditioning too Jim :mfr_lol:
Tumble dryer.
I was told by the dealer that I bought my Ducati ST2 from new in 2003 that Sports Touring bikes were a hard sell and then the same message came from the dealers that I bought my BMW K1200 RS from and the GTR. The dealer that supplied my Versys has had a new GTR on the shop floor for almost a year now with no sign of it moving and a second - hand unit in stock for some 18 months. The Triumph dealer just down the road from me has a second - hand GTR that won't shift and a new Trophy that has been there since January with no takers. My own, immaculate 2012 sub 10,000 mile GTR took six months to sell from the dealers Showroom when I part - exchanged it for the Versys.
It seems to me that all of these type of bikes represent hard work for the selling dealer, often for little or even no return. Why has the Pan - European not been updated for many years, why did it take so long to update the FJR? Unfortunately, it's just not the type of bike that sells enough units to justify the investment. Ducati haven't produced a dedicated sports touring bike since the ST2/ST4 and perhaps Kawasaki and the others will go the same route.
As for the value of a used GTR rising in the present market, it seems most unlikely to me. Once it's gone from the brochure, I think it will be forgotten. (Mine was a great bike though!).
Quote from: flatfour on November 28, 2016, 08:41:27 AM
I was told by the dealer that I bought my Ducati ST2 from new in 2003 that Sports Touring bikes were a hard sell and then the same message came from the dealers that I bought my BMW K1200 RS from and the GTR. The dealer that supplied my Versys has had a new GTR on the shop floor for almost a year now with no sign of it moving and a second - hand unit in stock for some 18 months. The Triumph dealer just down the road from me has a second - hand GTR that won't shift and a new Trophy that has been there since January with no takers. My own, immaculate 2012 sub 10,000 mile GTR took six months to sell from the dealers Showroom when I part - exchanged it for the Versys.
It seems to me that all of these type of bikes represent hard work for the selling dealer, often for little or even no return. Why has the Pan - European not been updated for many years, why did it take so long to update the FJR? Unfortunately, it's just not the type of bike that sells enough units to justify the investment. Ducati haven't produced a dedicated sports touring bike since the ST2/ST4 and perhaps Kawasaki and the others will go the same route.
As for the value of a used GTR rising in the present market, it seems most unlikely to me. Once it's gone from the broc :stupid: :stupid: :hure, I think it will be forgotten. (Mine was a great bike though!). :agree:
Sorry did not mean to put :stupid: in . Sausage fingers!
Quote from: flatfour on November 28, 2016, 08:41:27 AM
I was told by the dealer that I bought my Ducati ST2 from new in 2003 that Sports Touring bikes were a hard sell and then the same message came from the dealers that I bought my BMW K1200 RS from and the GTR. The dealer that supplied my Versys has had a new GTR on the shop floor for almost a year now with no sign of it moving and a second - hand unit in stock for some 18 months. The Triumph dealer just down the road from me has a second - hand GTR that won't shift and a new Trophy that has been there since January with no takers. My own, immaculate 2012 sub 10,000 mile GTR took six months to sell from the dealers Showroom when I part - exchanged it for the Versys.
It seems to me that all of these type of bikes represent hard work for the selling dealer, often for little or even no return. Why has the Pan - European not been updated for many years, why did it take so long to update the FJR? Unfortunately, it's just not the type of bike that sells enough units to justify the investment. Ducati haven't produced a dedicated sports touring bike since the ST2/ST4 and perhaps Kawasaki and the others will go the same route.
As for the value of a used GTR rising in the present market, it seems most unlikely to me. Once it's gone from the brochure, I think it will be forgotten. (Mine was a great bike though!).
good points :yes:
Due to this little discussion I went onto the website of the shop I p/x my 09 bike for the 64 plate I have now.
The original mark up they put on was £1500 but I have noticed how it keeps dropping it's still a bargain for someone at just over £6K.
But as you state it may be hard to move being A tourer type bike . :yes: