I'm settling in nicely with the GTR (just over 8,000 miles since July) and should be feeling properly settled on the bike pretty soon - the biggest thing I've found coming from the Bandit is having a cross-section the size of a barn door to catch the wind, not the fault of the GTR - just large faired bikes!
I had been meaning to look in to doing an advanced riding qualification this year but I thought it prudent to get used to the new bike before trying to get through one.
I've done a quick search on the forum and have seen a few people mention that they've done a RoSPA or IAM course, I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about either course and which one to go for? I know the IAM is a pass once thing and the RoSPA needs requalifying periodically but are there any other substantial differences?
I suppose things like the social aspect depend on your local organisation rather than the parent organisation.
Does anyone know anything about the IAM and RoSPA groups in Gloucestershire?
Any thoughts welcome but religious preferences for one or the other need to be backed up with a reasoned opinion ;)
I did my IAM with the Severn Group but too many years ago!, no bull, made me so much more aware and assertive. Suggest Google Severn Advanced Motorcyclists, else I believe Pross on this forum, just up a bit in the West Midlands is involved in advanced training.
did my IAM and a couple of Police bike safe courses. Anything to advance your skills is worth it IMHO. :yes:
I did my IAM this year on my GTR...
I decided on the IAM over RoSPA as I don't want to put myself through the stress of having to pass a test every 3 years... With our local IAM group they do a MRC = Members Ride Clinic.. Go out once a month with a observer to keep your skills up to date..
It works for me.. :yes:
I'm with Debs on thoughts over ROSPA / IAM, I took the test 23 years ago, still use the skills on every ride, just can't be fussed with ongoing affiliation / membership, but saying that would love to do it again, met some good folk!
Here's the web site............
https://sites.google.com/site/iamsambikers/
Thanks for the responses so far everyone. I am definitely sold on the idea of advanced training - just which one! It seems that there are two IAM groups around Cheltenham; http://www.advancedmotorcycling.org.uk/ and https://sites.google.com/site/iamsambikers/.
ROSPA are so far up their own arse it's difficult for me to say anything positive about them. :popcorn:
IAM on the other hand, I found to be excellent. :punk:
I'll leave it at that. :mfr_lol:
Hehe, thanks for that! That is an opinion I've seen repeated a few times on other forums etc but I am always very cautious about internet opinion ;)
There does seem to be a definite trend however.
Does that attitute filter down to the local groups do you think? I suppose every group is going to have good and bad eggs.
Definitely leaning towards the IAM route at the moment.
Quote from: The Wolf on December 08, 2015, 04:40:59 PM
ROSPA are so far up their own arse it's difficult for me to say anything positive about them. :popcorn:
IAM on the other hand, I found to be excellent. :punk:
I'll leave it at that. :mfr_lol:
:stupid: only joking Steve, well partly because I do agree with you about ROSPA I made three, I think, phone calls to local reps regarding participation on a course and despite promises, never received a returned call
I may well involve myself in an IAM course next season :yes:
Which ever you choose, just get on and do at least one of them.
With my IAM Observer and Committee member hat on I'd say go for the IAM ... but the reality is that each local Group is its own entity. So that can be good or not so good, depending on how it is run. All the Observers/Tutors are individuals as well (some sit in both camps).
Both organisations approach is based on Roadcraft, the IAM having their own publication How To Be A Better Rider (an easier read, but you can read both).
The main differences are with the test where ROSPA includes some formal Highway Code questions where the IAM one doesn't (but your knowledge will still be explored during the pre/post ride chat). ROSPA awards Gold/Silver/Bronze/Fail and the IAM award F1rst/Pass/Fail. ROSPA test has to be taken every 3 years, the IAM doesn't though you can take another assessment with an Examiner any time you want (£35) or take a Masters test.
Which is better? The classic answer I give to many riding questions ... "It depends". Do one and then do the other. I'm sure you'll learn something from both experiences.
Me? I did IAM, became an Observer and do my ROSPA retest every 3 years (with no formal ROSPA training as they are essentially the same). You NEVER stop learning.
Thanks for the comments, that is pretty much what I had assumed. I very much agree with the "never stop learning" sentiment, that is part of my reasoning for doing the training.
Quote from: ant177 on December 09, 2015, 08:30:24 AM
Thanks for the comments, that is pretty much what I had assumed. I very much agree with the "never stop learning" sentiment, that is part of my reasoning for doing the training.
I'm a far better rider after doing the IAM.. I don't take risks like I used to so that makes me safer..
Whichever you decide it will be a good decision. :yes:
Great replies from both STX1300 and Debs....thanks both :clap: :clap:
I think we've got beginner and advanced rider courses here. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to enroll in the advanced course this spring. I've never really been a thrasher in my riding style and I think that I have mellowed in certain respects over the years, but one can always learn new things. I know that I ride better alone than with a group.
Quote from: virginiajim on December 09, 2015, 12:33:36 PM
I think we've got beginner and advanced rider courses here. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to enroll in the advanced course this spring. I've never really been a thrasher in my riding style and I think that I have mellowed in certain respects over the years, but one can always learn new things. I know that I ride better alone than with a group.
That's an interesting point Jim and one which I agree with, I don't mind being with smaller groups and am quite happy being 'tail end Charlie'
Yeah, no peer pressure.. I've seen large HD groups where if one goes off the road, several follow they're so close....like Lemmings.
I've always thought of myself as a lone Wolf when riding. Don't have to worry about anyone but me or the wifey (if she is sitting with me). Can stop when I want. Lollygag when I want. Go fast when I want.. I think that the largest group I feel comfortable in is about 5.
The group dynamic can mess you up as well depending on if you are familiar with the particular group that you are in. I remember one time, a cruiser rider joined us and we were all sport tourers. I believe that I was on the C14 but could have been the C10. I remembered thinking 'bringing a knife to a gunfight..' Sure as heck he was trying to keep up with us and he ran a truck and himself off the road later in the ride.
Another guy joined us on another ride and I specifically told him not to follow certain riders. He didn't listen and ran off the road and wrecked. Know your limitations.
Quote from: virginiajim on December 09, 2015, 05:30:15 PM
Yeah, no peer pressure.. I've seen large HD groups where if one goes off the road, several follow they're so close....like Lemmings.
I've always thought of myself as a lone Wolf when riding. Don't have to worry about anyone but me or the wifey (if she is sitting with me). Can stop when I want. Lollygag when I want. Go fast when I want.. I think that the largest group I feel comfortable in is about 5.
The group dynamic can mess you up as well depending on if you are familiar with the particular group that you are in. I remember one time, a cruiser rider joined us and we were all sport tourers. I believe that I was on the C14 but could have been the C10. I remembered thinking 'bringing a knife to a gunfight..' Sure as heck he was trying to keep up with us and he ran a truck and himself off the road later in the ride.
Another guy joined us on another ride and I specifically told him not to follow certain riders. He didn't listen and ran off the road and wrecked. Know your limitations.
As you say Jim know your limitations.
I ride out now and again with friends around 6 and a mixture of bikes I prefer around 4 and solo.
The biggest group was on our GTR meeting but those are now and then .
I prefer to ride for me as you state don't get me wrong the company is nice but the ride is better :clap: :clap:
Ahh, the old argument...
I've been on both sides of the fence, qualified at RoSPA Gold and Iam First 4 years later.
Both are based on the same book, but both have slightly different teaching styles but both will improve you.
If it's available, why not go and do a bike safe course, London (TFL) used to subsidise bike safe. If you can do it within you own area, you could talk to the bike safe instructor and get an unbiased opinion in you area.
I would definitely do bike safe first, as I did, it gives you something to think about.... Then read a book called Motorcycle Roadcraft.... You'll need to read it anyway... For both IAM and ROSPA. However, just reading the book is likely to make you a safer but reactive rider, where as having someone show you will make you proactive!
The book you can buy now, less than £15, read it over the winter and do a course when then evenings are lighter and more enjoyable to practice.... If you have any questions - fire away!
Neil
Preference for iam or rosp tends to come from individual experience of local groups. Both teach the same system of riding and I have passed both and gone on to observe andvturor in both. Iam test didnt feel challenging to me. I did rospa next and even though I didnt get think about test grade during training , I just wanted to be safer I got gold 1st time I preferred rospa and that was due to a combination of finding I was streteched more by the training and I got on better with the people.
I suggest trying both groups and then decide.
Yes the Roadcraft book is a necessity. I'll take it a step further and suggest that an advanced riding course should either be,
A- compulsory after completing perhaps twelve months of riding.
Or
B- the standard of riding required to pass your 'normal' test.
Now I'll stand back and await the flack. :mfr_lol:
no flack from this corner of the ring Steve.
When I took my HGV licence some years ago it very definitely improved my driving skills quite considerably and along with that my awareness also, plus it certainly provided the opportunity to refresh my understanding of the Highway Code.....so another bike related course would clearly be beneficial to me
I'll put it on my list of things to do for next season :clap:
I've already got a copy of Roadcraft on its way so that I can start to read through that.
Thanks for the comments on Bike Safe Neil, I was already familiar with that scheme but unfortunately the scheme isn't running here in Gloucestershire until June next year.
I suspect I will have already started an advanced course by that point and the Bike Safe site specifically states that it isn't open to participants who have had advanced training. Although whether you have to pass for that to apply I'm not sure. I also don't know how they would know ;)
It would be good if the car licence had a compulsory motorbike component (and yes, I realise how impractical that would be but still). I felt that I became a better car driver after passing my bike test because of the focus on observational skills etc. The car test just seems to be a box tick of "are you aware that there are some shiny reflective surfaces on the sides of your vehicle"?
Rider training took that mirror and beat me around the head with it, I now do a life-saver check before changing position when walking on the pavement! ;)
Bring back the good old RAC / ACU courses from the '80's, set us all up with the ground rules for self preservation and consideration!
we all get lazy and slip into bad habits, I really feel we should all be assessed by a trained observer every 5 years, whatever type of license is held, to review health, eyesight and ability to drive! :undecided:
A tick on the licensce to say that you are still able to have the privilage to drive and hold a license, then referral for training if not.
Thanks to all out there who provide continual (call it advanced if you want) training, respect, never to old to learn or receive new and alternate ideas!
I'm still learning daily how to handle the challenges of married life...........think the roads are safer! :wink:
I went to a local IAM and didn't like the attitude of many of the instructors. Holier than thou best describes it,... or maybe Full of themselves. I'm always ready to learn and improve but not into being told that I must comply with "THE" method.
There was a humorous review of Bikesafe done over on the Visor Vision blog (http://www.blogsplat.visorvision.co.uk/). Worth a read to get an idea of what it offers.
Quote from: Boomer on December 10, 2015, 07:30:37 PM
I went to a local IAM and didn't like the attitude of many of the instructors. Holier than thou best describes it,... or maybe Full of themselves. I'm always ready to learn and improve but not into being told that I must comply with "THE" method.
Unfortunately there are some who are not very good at getting the point over. Getting someone to understand
why they are being asked to consider doing some aspect of riding, and then trying it and hopefully adopting it, is the skill.
As for 'THE Way', what would you expect? It's a style of riding. Would you sign up for any academic course and then not do what is required to pass the test? The examiner is not going to suddenly say 'oh, you must be right, I'll let you off that bit'. You may not agree with everything being said, but the ultimate aim is to get you thinking about what you are doing all the time and to ride at the required level for the test. The Observer is trying to get you to that level and use it on a daily basis. If you only end up incorporating some of it into your ride, that is your choice, but hopefully you will have still gained from the experience..
Boomer.. 'You will comply!' You sure they weren't Daleks? No, wait. If they were, you would have been exterminated. Thank goodness they weren't.
Come out with me. I'm a class one adv :)
Jim - Daleks?, your sign off appears to suggest you've been assimilated!
http://www.glos-roadar.org.uk/
I've just checked and there is a Bike Safe course available in Northallerton which is only 17 miles away from me in march 2016, so that could be a good idea to start with :yes:
Quote from: SirToU on December 12, 2015, 09:36:41 AM
Jim - Daleks?, your sign off appears to suggest you've been assimilated!
Not quite, but it's an ongoing effort... :wink:
Not bikesafw but I had an hours ride out with a Staffordshire police officer at a bike show locally. Even though id done rospa I wanted my riding checked after a minor accident on the bike. The police guy was happy with my riding but the thing that sticks in the mind was part of his pre ride briefi....
Just ride as you normally do, but in terms of speed we have to think of public relations and that I am riding a marked bike. Needles to say I did a bit of overtaking.
Quote from: O.C. on December 12, 2015, 01:14:13 PM
I've just checked and there is a Bike Safe course available in Northallerton which is only 17 miles away from me in march 2016, so that could be a good idea to start with :yes:
Bikesafe - you'll have a great time! Observer Tony Lockhart from Leicester way took myself and a friend on an assessed ride, was top notch! Constructive criticism :sweatdrop:, due progress :wink: , and a knowledge of some of the best roads / situations, will be awaiting an update to see if you enjoyed it as much as our day, should get it booked up again!
Whatever you do I am sure you will enjoy it :scooter: :yes:
Sorry to join this thread late.
I have been member of a number of both IAM and RoSPA groups and my personal opinion is that RoSPA is better as the retests attract people who want to improve and maintain their riding, rather than just attain a badge. Having said that, the differences are small and are far outweighed by the personalities and characters of the group members; a good IAM group is far better than a poor RoSPA one.
I would recommend a visit and taster ride to as many groups as you can comfortably travel to and see which one fits your personality and what you're trying to achieve; some are very social and some purely training focussed. I hope that makes sense and good luck with whatever you choose :-)
P.S. for O.C. We have a RoSPA group in York and meet on a Saturday morning, although do arrange training on other days too. Please come along for a taster ride; I need another GTR to balance out all the bloody BMs as my bike is likely to catch rust and recalls :-)
www.arny.org.uk
I'm considering this opportunity Phil, and will be in touch soon :smiley: