I've booked my 2008 xjr in for a service,while I was booking it in I told them it's running uneven,mainly on tick-over,they advised using PREMUIM UNLEADED rather than normal unleaded.anyone run there GTR 1400 on premium unleaded.
Run all my bikes on Premium and never from Super Markets if I can help it not only do they run better you get better mpg :)
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Zeb
I agree with Zeb, I get better mpg and better running on premium.
Cheap stuff for me.
I occasionally treat Kelpy to a tank full of "Full Fat" the extra additives clean the injectors.
Does it make a lot of difference ? One wouldn't notice on my Gs tractor but if there are any petrol enthusiasts who would like to inform us then I would gladly change if there are significant advantages ....
Someone one of the yami/susuki/kwaka dealers years ago told me to put the premium in now and then it helps them run a bit smoother and cleaner I do every 4th fill up it works for me and your talking an extra couple of quid she deserves it. :yes:
Quote from: pross on June 26, 2014, 08:01:54 PM
Someone one of the yami/susuki/kwaka dealers years ago told me to put the premium in now and then it helps them run a bit smoother and cleaner I do every 4th fill up it works for me and your talking an extra couple of quid she deserves it. :yes:
:agree: thats what i do, always run 98 ron in france, not bothered about MPG as the premium costs more anyway but it does seem to increase.
I use super unleaded in everything, as it is very much better for the older bikes and I believe that there are advantages for the GTR (and even our cars). Have always avoided supermarket fuels, as does everyone else that I know with any mechanical sympathy!
Premium when I can. Bike always run better.
I put some premium in my lawn mower and that liked it as well.
There was a program on this a few months ago where they tested equal amounts of standard and premium unleaded from various suppliers and they concluded the power gains and extra mileage obtained by the premium fuels were barely noticeable and certainly not worth the extra cash. I think they are a rip off too.
Shame Aldi and Lidl don't do petrol.
:scooter:
Quote from: dokterdave on June 26, 2014, 08:41:28 PM
Shame Aldi and Lidl don't do petrol.
:scooter:
Just use their vodka :mfr_lol:
All Japanese bikes have been capable of running on Standard Unleaded (or in leaded terms 2 star?!) since 1974.
BMW Boxers were Super Unleaded only until the engine change in 2010. Retuned to run on standard but recommended every 4th tankful is Super.
Kawasaki should run OK on standard, but the extra chemicals will help clean it in Super
Just curious but what's the issue with supermarket fuel, surely there's would be better than some pokey back street or village garage.
I worked for BP for several years and had inside knowledge on the refinery side of things. Premium fuel is a waste of money, the extra 3 Ron that you get delivers a very very small octane boost, this small effect is usually wiped out by a dirty spark plug or some carbon deposits ect. sales of premium spirit only accounted for about 2% of our fuel volume and over 90% of people buying the product were accidental!
Supermarket fuel v Brand fuel. From the grangemouth refinery in Scotland we supplied most of the north of the uk, we supplied BP sites and all the major supermarkets, inc Sainsburys, morrisons, tescos and safeway. The only difference in the fuel was the additives, a tanker driver would collect his pod of fuel from the same division no matter on its final destination, the difference being that the branded fuel ( BP ESSO) had a squirt of aditives , the supermarket fuel did not get this, the additives in my opinion were questionable as they claimed more MPG, cleaner running ect.
As I understand it, the main advantage of 97/98 over 95 RON is knock resistance, i.e. the fuel's resistance to unwanted detonation in extreme cases.
This means you can get more power, in theory, by allowing a little more ignition advance, and/or a little more compression ratio, when using 98.
Unless a car/bike is mapped specifically for that fuel, or it has some sort of octane sensor in the fuel supply system, or it has an absolutely infallible knock sensor, then our vehicles cannot take advantage of that extra octane.
I run 98 on my turbocharged MX5, but then it is mapped assuming I will always use that fuel. The GTR has had 53,000 miles worth of 95 normal unleaded from everywhere and anywhere, and runs perfectly.
It is possible that 98 has more detergents in it, but if so, then that must mean it actually has slightly less real petrol in it as we buy it by the litre.
Martin.
Quote from: viper on June 27, 2014, 04:40:51 AM
I worked for BP for several years and had inside knowledge on the refinery side of things. Premium fuel is a waste of money, the extra 3 Ron that you get delivers a very very small octane boost, this small effect is usually wiped out by a dirty spark plug or some carbon deposits ect. sales of premium spirit only accounted for about 2% of our fuel volume and over 90% of people buying the product were accidental!
Supermarket fuel v Brand fuel. From the grangemouth refinery in Scotland we supplied most of the north of the uk, we supplied BP sites and all the major supermarkets, inc Sainsburys, morrisons, tescos and safeway. The only difference in the fuel was the additives, a tanker driver would collect his pod of fuel from the same division no matter on its final destination, the difference being that the branded fuel ( BP ESSO) had a squirt of aditives , the supermarket fuel did not get this, the additives in my opinion were questionable as they claimed more MPG, cleaner running ect.
:goodpost:
This is a most curious thread indeed. The US bikes are specified to run premium. Are they not in the UK and elsewhere? What does your manual specify? I run premium in mine and I can tell the difference in the way the bike performs vs using mid-grade. It's noisier running anything less than premium. In the US we typically have 87, 89, and 92/93 at the pump. If you are a thrasher, then you really need to use premium here (US) as the VVT can effectively change the compression ratio...higher. Also, I try to find pumps where the grades have their own nozzles so I don't get the lesser fuels in the tank. I try to run brand name fuels such as Gulf/BP/Sunoco if I can, but that's me.
I always use 98 where possible - except at the Eni garage around the corner from where I live in Monza.
There, I fill up with their Eni Blu Super + which is 100 :punk:
http://www.eni.com/it_IT/prodotti-servizi/carburanti-combustibili/gamma-eni-blu/gamma-eni-blu.shtml
It's not exactly cheap at 1.855 EUR per litre, but then neither is any other fuel in this country. So might as well pay for the good stuff.
Cheers
Ros
Quote from: virginiajim on June 27, 2014, 12:19:08 PM
This is a most curious thread indeed. The US bikes are specified to run premium. Are they not in the UK and elsewhere? What does your manual specify? I run premium in mine and I can tell the difference in the way the bike performs vs using mid-grade. It's noisier running anything less than premium. In the US we typically have 87, 89, and 92/93 at the pump. If you are a thrasher, then you really need to use premium here (US) as the VVT can effectively change the compression ratio...higher. Also, I try to find pumps where the grades have their own nozzles so I don't get the lesser fuels in the tank. I try to run brand name fuels such as Gulf/BP/Sunoco if I can, but that's me.
To answer the question Jim ..................................
Types of Fuel and Octane Ratings
Petrol's octane rating is a measurement of the fuel's ability to resist engine knocking. Knock occurs when the fuel-air mix in the cylinder explodes instead of burning in a controlled way. This shockwave moves within the combustion chamber, and creates a metallic 'pinging' sound.
An octane rating is often referred to as an 'anti-knock index'. If fuel has a high octane number, it will have a higher resistance to engine knocking.
Octane Numbers
Usually, there are three different octane numbers associated with all petrols. Petrol's Research Octane Number (RON) is measured under simple test conditions. Petrol's Motor Octane Number (MON) is measured under tougher test conditions and at higher engine speed and temperature.
The average of these two values is what becomes related closer to actual driving conditions. This value is known as the Road Octane Number, and is what should be used in filling stations.
Occasionally, some filling stations will confuse these different octane numbers in a bid to embellish on their octane rating claims, and advertise their fuel's Research Octane Number, which is higher than the Road Octane Number. In many European countries, the Research Octane Number is advertised on pumps, so a much higher octane value is common when travelling in certain countries.
Diesel Fuel
Diesel automatically ignites and burns when it is compressed to a very high pressure. The released energy is contained by the engine and powers the vehicle. The key difference between diesel and petrol engines is auto-ignition. A spark plug ignites the fuel in a petrol engine whereas a diesel engine auto-ignites. Diesel has a Cetane Index and Number rather than the Research Octane Number (RON) that petrol has
Leaded Four Star petrol was removed from sale on British forecourts on 1st January 2000. However, Leaded Four Star is now sold in a small amount of licensed stations in the UK.
In the UK, the most common petrol types are:
Ordinary unleaded – 95 RON
Super unleaded – 98 RON
4 star fuel
Leaded Four Star – 98 RON
So our UK basic unleaded is a higher RON than your Super fuel
When I had my Vauxhall (Holden) Monaro (Pontiac GTO to you guys) I fell about with laughter as my mates with their Scooby's and Evo's had less BHP and had to use super unleaded.................the LS2 in the Monaro was tuned for 400BHP on 92 RON fuel :mfr_lol:
Hope this helps ?
Yes, indeed!
Quote from: Charlie747 on June 27, 2014, 12:03:56 PM
:goodpost:
top gear did a item a few years back running the same vehicle on 95 and 98 spirit, they did , 0-60, standing mile , overtakes , measured MPG ,everything, they got no measurable advantage from the premium spirit.
stop wasting your money!
Quote from: viper on June 27, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
top gear did a item a few years back running the same vehicle on 95 and 98 spirit, they did , 0-60, standing mile , overtakes , measured MPG ,everything, they got no measurable advantage from the premium spirit.
stop wasting your money!
:agree:
USA use RON+MON/2 where we just use RON. Therefore UK 95 =USA 91.
Quote from: Boomer on June 27, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
USA use RON+MON/2 where we just use RON. Therefore UK 95 =USA 91.
So our happy shopper = US rocket fuel :popcorn:
in Bavaria at the moment and all most of the fuel available is the 10% ethanol " super E10" , that's the stuff that rots your bike from the inside out, ask OC! is this fuel the norm now ??
It's the norm over here and they want to stuff E15 down our throats, but the good fight is on and I'm crossing my fingers that govt will do the right thing...... :mfr_lol: I don't think we've seen much harm on FI engines. It's the carb engines that are bearing the brunt of this. Of course, every manual for any gasoline engine I have says don't use anything more than E10. I've traded in my weed wacker for a battery powered one and it does quite well, actually. Tired of messing with carbs. Next mower I get will be electric.
http://youtu.be/gQghB4asSnI
Interesting, so this leads us to the next question, can the GTR appreciate the difference?
Quote from: Richard on June 27, 2014, 11:40:41 PM
Interesting, so this leads us to the next question, can the GTR appreciate the difference?
The engines that enjoyed the higher RON fuel had forced induction :popcorn:
I had an american market Hayabusa at one time, which according to the book ran on 2 star.
And higher compression ratios....which ours does get to when it's being thrashed. However, your low grade fuel is higher than our premium here...I think...so buying what you call premium in the UK would seem a bit of a waste to me unless I've totally got this wrong.
Hmmmm .. interesting especially from Charlie and Viper .. I shall try every 4th and see if there is a difference, or perhaps for my upcoming trip to The Highlands I shall put in premium for a few days and see if there is any difference ... thank you chaps for your info . :yes:
http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octane-rating-conversions.html (http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octane-rating-conversions.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Difference_between_RON_and_AKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Difference_between_RON_and_AKI)
http://youtu.be/TxKokBIOCv4
Quote from: shaggs147 on June 26, 2014, 08:36:19 PM
There was a program on this a few months ago where they tested equal amounts of standard and premium unleaded from various suppliers and they concluded the power gains and extra mileage obtained by the premium fuels were barely noticeable and certainly not worth the extra cash. I think they are a rip off too.
fifth gear did an article on the benefits of the premium and ordinary fuels,no difference ,infact if i remember corrctley in some cases the premium fuel did less mpg and was down on power output to the ordinary fuel. i also think it is a rip off!!!
Quote from: keith on July 12, 2014, 07:46:17 PM
fifth gear did an article on the benefits of the premium and ordinary fuels,no difference ,infact if i remember corrctley in some cases the premium fuel did less mpg and was down on power output to the ordinary fuel. i also think it is a rip off!!!
YouTube video posted earlier in thread
http://youtu.be/gQghB4asSnI
Turbo charged car produced more BHP on higher octane fuel. Car compression ratio probably less than 'GTR's 10:1 (some bikes are more than 13:1) but lower compression ratio is normal on vehicles with forced induction. USA racers suggest 100 octane (104.8 Euro) in 10:1 engines.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=14919 (http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=14919)
I have a two stroke and have holed pistons twice thanks to crappy fuel
the best petrol is ethanol free
take your carbs to bits on an old bike and see the staining and corrosion especially of some rubber going on with ethanol
I buy premium every time. im not gonna spend 8 grand on a bike and then scrimp over a few pennies on something that can be almost as good for mpg performance but doesn't always have detergents
same with my oil and in fact everything, chains tyres pads etc, I buy the best I can afford
two stroke oil takes penny pinching over quality to even higher levels
you can buy two stroke oil for 3 quid a litre and a lot do yet I buy 10 quid a litre stuff
our bikes run lean and in eco mode run even leaner and the last thing I want is a lower octane rating
the higher the better surely?
doesn't it say on the tank minimum 95 ron? implying higher is better?
Quote from: aljaxon on July 21, 2014, 05:12:51 AM
I have a two stroke and have holed pistons twice thanks to crappy fuel
the best petrol is ethanol free
take your carbs to bits on an old bike and see the staining and corrosion especially of some rubber going on with ethanol
I buy premium every time. im not gonna spend 8 grand on a bike and then scrimp over a few pennies on something that can be almost as good for mpg performance but doesn't always have detergents
same with my oil and in fact everything, chains tyres pads etc, I buy the best I can afford
two stroke oil takes penny pinching over quality to even higher levels
you can buy two stroke oil for 3 quid a litre and a lot do yet I buy 10 quid a litre stuff
our bikes run lean and in eco mode run even leaner and the last thing I want is a lower octane rating
the higher the better surely?
doesn't it say on the tank minimum 95 ron? implying higher is better?
If your stroker is an 'older'machine I would recommend that you use Frost Ethomix. I have used it in 2 srtroke bikes successfully for quite some time it counteracts the E5 additive and will also help protect your carbs and tank lining (if yoyr tank has been lined)
Just a thought :yes:
Quote from: O.C. on July 21, 2014, 09:57:55 AM
If your stroker is an 'older'machine I would recommend that you use Frost Ethomix. I have used it in 2 srtroke bikes successfully for quite some time it counteracts the E5 additive and will also help protect your carbs and tank lining (if yoyr tank has been lined)
Just a thought :yes:
I read about that frost stuff a couple of years ago luckily the tank has never been rusty enough to be lined, heard of horror stories of ethanol bringing the liner off!! ive had two rubber pipes leak and the orange dust everywhere in the float bowls makes you think twice
a very rough rule of thumb ive been told is cheaper fuel = more ethanol
although isn't ethanol used to give the fuel its octane rating? so more ethanol = higher octane?
ethanol is good at preventing knocking but rubbish against detonation but once you get deto its anti knocking properties disappear hnence so many two strokes holing pistons
might be other way round good at deto crap at anti knocking or pre ignition
ether way its miles worse than lead ive been told.
even if im being conned into buying premium as its no better in real terms performance wise, if on the whole its better as it has detergents and higher octane then that's good enough for me
I open my throttle fully quite a lot on all my bikes and last thing I want is deto or preignition
Quote from: Ant on June 26, 2014, 08:09:49 PM
:agree: thats what i do, always run 98 ron in france, not bothered about MPG as the premium costs more anyway but it does seem to increase.
Correct, DON'T USE E10 fuel in France, the E10 stands for 10% Ethanol which isn't healthy for bike engines.
I work for Castrol and years ago one of our developement chemists told me in most cases the premium fuels weren't worth the extra but for peace of mind maybe use a fuel additive once in a while.
The handbook states for UK models equal to or higher than RON 95, and specifically NOT to use 10% Ethanol fuel.
Are your fuel systems different from ours? All we have over here in the US is E10. You can find pure gas in some of the smaller fuel station but they are few and far between. They want to stuff E15 down our throats but they (guvmint) are getting a bit of pushback on that as none very darn few vehicles can run that crap. The ethanol lobby is pushing that but we've been running E10 for years. It's crap gas but what can you do? Basically the carb equipped vehicles are paying the price for E10, not so much with FI.
E5 = 5% additive E10= 10% additive.
Additive is cheaper than fuel and more harmful to older engines than none additive fuel. Ergo respective governments make more profit from fuel sales.
Fuel with E5 additive plays havoc with older bikes especially those which may have their tank lined with some non rethanol resistant material, it can also make a right old mess of carburettors and, if left, is a nightmare to clean/remove.....believe me I know from bitter experience. :hammer:
is it true (to those petrol experts out there) that as a general rule of thumb, cheaper (supermarket) petrol has more ethanol?
ive been trying to stick to shell v power or bp ultimate to stay away from ethanol
but then my pal told me tescos petrol stations use esso which is still ethanol free.... :huh:
my rd 350 holed the left piston and the left crank seal shows signs of weeping
that could either be ethanol damage or damage AFTER the hole with all the debris flying around
us 2 stroke heads are conditioned/brainwashed into using as high an octane rating as possible and so to us, people using cheaper lower octane fuel just to scrimp and save a few pennies are thinking more about their bank balance then the health of their engines
its all about being kinder to your engine, not necessarily performance /mpg for less money
obviously it isn't as critical to our modern injected engines as it is on older stuff but there must come a point where its worth a few pennies just to be nicer to your engine?
I always go for the most expensive motor oil too, as that is bathing your motor 24/7 and its all about treating your motor kindly
I know that lots(most) don't bother and put cheapest oil/grease/filters/fuel/pads or indeed any consumable and don't experience any problems
they wont obviously but isn't it nice to know you are at least doing your bit to give the motor am easier life?