Just had the bike MOT'd and a oil change etc. Needed front wheel bearings replacing due to water ingress.
At only 8300 miles , four years old, I was somewhat surprised. Not expensive, a tenner per bearing I think and I wasn't charged much to fit but I still think bearings should last longer than that. My cars done 54 k for goodness sake and hasn't needed anything but oil and brake pads
Advisory on MOT for uneven brake force so discs must be slightly warped too !!! Neverthless, I love this bike.
I've still got the original bearings in mine at 60k miles. I check them every tire change and so far they are holding up well for me, but our weather here is somewhat dryer. I also very rarely wash the bike.
Car bearings a completely enclosed. Bike ones are more exposed and if you jetwash the bike you will blast water in there and ruin them.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk
Quote from: virginiajim on June 08, 2014, 01:20:29 PM
I've still got the original bearings in mine at 60k miles. I check them every tire change and so far they are holding up well for me, but our weather here is somewhat dryer. I also very rarely wash the bike.
Well that's quite smt 60k compared to mine. I'll have to stop washing the bike ! :grin:
Boomer- I don't use a jet wash but do hose the bike down although i've always thought I've avoided the wheel bearing areas. Maybe need to be more careful.
Washing bike not good.
My bike has just had it's 5th set of front wheel bearings. I did them myself this time to try and work out what is making them fail so regularly.
I bought aftermarket SKF bearings, but to be honest they look exactly the same as the OEM bearings - both sets are sealed on both sides, so that cannot be the cause.
The only thing that looks like a possibility is how the spacer is fitted between the two bearings. The spacer had a good 1/2 to 1mm free clearance on mine, which suggests to me that the bearings are then distorted axially when the spindle is inserted and tightened. I refitted with zero clearance this time, so will see if that changes anything.
@Teacher, when the bearings fail, they also give warp disk symptoms - it is possible that your disk problems will also be solved by the new bearings.
Martin
I've done 20k on mine so far and the bearings (original) are something I must get around to checking ideally before the Scottish trip in July. I'm hoping a mate over in Huddersfield will do the necessary for me..... :whistling:
Quote from: Martin#30 on June 08, 2014, 09:31:56 PM
My bike has just had it's 5th set of front wheel bearings. I did them myself this time to try and work out what is making them fail so regularly.
I bought aftermarket SKF bearings, but to be honest they look exactly the same as the OEM bearings - both sets are sealed on both sides, so that cannot be the cause.
The only thing that looks like a possibility is how the spacer is fitted between the two bearings. The spacer had a good 1/2 to 1mm free clearance on mine, which suggests to me that the bearings are then distorted axially when the spindle is inserted and tightened. I refitted with zero clearance this time, so will see if that changes anything.
@Teacher, when the bearings fail, they also give warp disk symptoms - it is possible that your disk problems will also be solved by the new bearings.
Martin
I've just done some bearings again this weekend and observerd the same issue with the spacer.
The first time I replaced the bearings on my 08 I noticed the spacer was snug against the bearing. The bearing hasn't gone, I was just changing it as I was putting on new rotors and wanted to give the wheel a full service so to speak. On the 2011 model, there was a couple of mm (at least) free between the spacer and the bearing. Again, the bearing hadn't gone, it was just me being over cautious. I've just swapped/changed wheels and the bearings on the replacement wheel were shot. Again there was a gap between the spacer and bearing. Just my observations - doesn't prove if the spacer is the culprit as my bearings weren't shot all the time.
What was puzzling me over the weekend was the purpose of the spacer. A Google search showed that the spacer and bearing should have zero space between them, as you've stated above. I actually left the bearing almost snug to the bearing i.e. I can feel its just touching the bearing and with a little force can move the spacer to the side. That was deliberate on my part as moving the spacer with it snug to bearing make it difficult to move the spacer next time the bearings need replacing. In hindsight I should have put a notch in the spacer and fitted the bearing snug to the spacer. Which is what I'll do when I replace them next time.
Quote from: The Wolf on June 08, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
I've done 20k on mine so far and the bearings (original) are something I must get around to checking ideally before the Scottish trip in July. I'm hoping a mate over in Huddersfield will do the necessary for me..... :whistling:
Lol, I'll guide you. Bring a spare bearing cause I seem to forget to insert the spacer between the bearings!
So what's the easiest way to check wheel bearings on the bike, I know how I can check them on my car but how do you practically do it on the bike.
Alan
Quote from: BigAlan on June 08, 2014, 10:10:05 PM
So what's the easiest way to check wheel bearings on the bike, I know how I can check them on my car but how do you practically do it on the bike.
Alan
With the wheel off the ground, when rotated it should be smooth and no side to side movement. If you hear a rumble, its :censored:
Oh, and if anyone wants to work with the wheel off the bike, here's a tip: I can highly recommend the wheelie bins. They are perfect for resting the wheel on with the lid open and your back will thank you.
(http://www.wheeliebins.com/images/bin_img.png)
Does it have to be a green bin ? :popcorn:
The seals on a sealed bearing are very easily disturbed, especially if you use the hammer and drift method of installing them rather than a bolt and washer to pull them into place. if the seal gets disturbed the grease will soon get away and the bearing will fail after a few thousand miles
Quote from: Ant on June 08, 2014, 10:57:20 PM
Does it have to be a green bin ? :popcorn:
Yes, ours just has cardboard in it. The black bins stink
Quote from: Burchy on June 08, 2014, 11:10:58 PM
The seals on a sealed bearing are very easily disturbed, especially if you use the hammer and drift method of installing them rather than a bolt and washer to pull them into place. if the seal gets disturbed the grease will soon get away and the bearing will fail after a few thousand miles
Interesting, I've not tried that method. I take it you would need two washers, one just just shy of the bearing size, and the other larger than the recess (otherwise on the second bearing you could be pulling in the first one) with a long bolt and nut?
You would tighten on the opposite side to drive in the bearing? I assume you do that once the bearing is flush with the recess to prevent it going in at an angle?
Here's some notes I made from changing the bearings. Might be helpful for some.
Note that a bearing has two metal rings visible: the outer ring is known as the outer race, and the inner ring is the inner race. You should only be putting force on the outer race. Never put force on the inner race
1. Get it into your head now - don't forget the spacer, don't forget the spacer, don't forget the spacer
2. Get it into your head now - don't lean on the rotors at all (assuming you don't remove the rotors first). DO NOT REST THE WHEEL ON THE ROTORS AT ALL.
3. Grab a drift and a decent hammer. Ideally a hammer with a large surface area. If you don't have a drift, grab one of those screwdrivers with a metal head. You'll also need a socket. I think its 33mm for the front and 35mm for the rear. I will check and update the post with the correct info so don't take that as gospel
4. Remove the dust seals carefully. They are hard to get out and you will ruin them if you get them out with a screwdriver. Use something with a larger contact surface area, like a chisel. Insert chisel in the gap between the bearing and seal. They require some force to get out by pushing down towards the rotors, and the last thing you want to do is end up putting stress on the rotors (see point 2 above). On the front wheel repeat for both sides. On the rear, dust seal is on one wheel only
5. See point 2 again
6. And again see point 2
6a. Once the seals are removed, clean the recess. There will be dirt and grime stuck between the outer race and recess. Grab a flat blade screwdriver and gently loosen it by going around the circumference of the bearing.
7. With the drift, insert it into the spacer and attempt to move the spacer to the side. Depending on how snug it is against the bearing, it may require a little force. Which is fine, as long as you observe point 2 above. Imagine looking down at the wheel while its flat on one side. What you're trying to do it move the spacer so you can look through the hollow spacer and see the inner race bearing at the other side of the wheel
8. Once the spacer has moved (and it will only be slight), one portion the inner race of the bearing should be visible. And its a very small portion. If the brace just about catches it, then that is about right. As soon as you hit the inner race, that's it. The bearing is :censored: and you must replace it. No going back now.
9. So start at 12 o'clock, put the drift on the inner race, refer to point 2, and give the brace a good whack. Then repeat for 6 o'clock, 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. Each time refer to point 2.
10. It might be a bit stubborn at first, and you may have to do a few hard whacks. You'll know its started to move once the spacer moves about more freely. Refer to point 2.
11. Once the bearing falls out, the spacer will follow it. Refer to point 1
12. Again refer to point 1
13. Turn the wheel around
14. Refer to point 2
15. The second bearing should be easier to remove as there is no spacer in the way. Repeat from point 9
16. You could use heat to help remove the bearings if they are really stubborn. I haven't come across a really stubborn one on the GTR yet
17. With the bearings out, give the recess a good clean
18. Get some grease and apply to both recess liberally. I put loads on
19. Refer to point 1
20. Refer to point 2
21. To make things easier, leave the bearings in a freezer overnight and warm up the area around the recess (although its not necessary)
22. Get the first new bearing. Put it over the recess. Note how it is an extremely tight fit
23. Grab yourself the correct socket. With the bearing on the recess, put the socket on the bearing. Note the socket covers the outer race, but is just small enough not to get stuck in the recess. Tip: for the front bearing, you can use the socket for the rear wheel bearing as it fits the outer race perfectly. Only until its flush with the recess when you will need to move to the smaller socket
24. Don't :censored: this next part up. If you do, you'll have to remove the bearing by hammering on the inner race which will render the bearing useless. You don't want the bearing to go in at an angle. It must go in cleanly.
25. Refer to point 2. It is so easy to lean on the rotors at this point.
26. With the hammer, gently tap the socket at the following positions 12, 6, 3 and 9. Remove socket, and look at bearing to see if it looks consistent at all sides of the recess. With the socket on the bearing, repeat until bearing is flush to the recess. If it looks like one side is in slightly more than the other, just hammer the socket gently on the other side.
27. Refer to point 2.
28. The bearing should now be flush to the recess. It needs to go in further, but do not be tempted to drive it in all the way. If you do, you'll find that the spacer on the other side protrudes significantly from the recess. I don't know if that would cause an issue, but I like to have my bearings located at the same distance in each recess
29. Refer to point 2
30. Start to tap in the bearing into the recess more, until its in by about 5mm. Remember to use the correct socket size
31. Turn the wheel over. Time to do the second bearing
32. Refer to point 1
33. Grab the spacer, give it a good clean. I like to grease mine lightly from the outside and liberally from the inside. Greasing from the inside helps the wheel spindle when you put the wheel back on the bike.
34. Insert the spacer. Notice how it goes below the recess area presently. That's because the first bearing isn't yet correctly located in the recess.
35. Refer to point 2
36. Repeat from step 23 and refer to step 2 every time you're about to tap with the hammer
37. Again refer to point 2
38. If you've got this far, congrats.
39. Both the bearings should now be in by 5mm. The spacer should be rattling loose. Now its time to get the spacer snug with the bearings
40. By turning the wheel over alternatively, start to drive in each bearing a little more using the socket. Ensure that both bearings are located about the same in the recess. Keep checking the spacer, ensuring that it is resting on the inner race
41. Eventually you'll see that the gap between the inner race and spacer is becoming smaller. Once the spacer just starts to catch the inner race, progresses slowly so that the spacer and inner race are just touching and no more. The bearings should be located about the same distance in the recess
42. Grease over the bearings. I put a load of grease on
43. Grease the bearing dust seals and insert by pushing fully in. I like to get more grease and shove it in the gap between the bearing and seal. On the top part of the seal there is a light smudge only. That's because you don't want it flung off onto the brakes or anything
44. Give yourself a pat on the back
There's typos and grammatical errors in the points above which I'll amend later. But its enough to give the gist of what to do. I don't think its any harder than doing brake pads.
Remember when putting the wheel back on to clean the rotors with brake cleaner
Excellent advice, Asif. Why don't you cross post that on our forum when you get a chance and if you are ever over here, I'll certainly offer you a martini or two.
Quote from: virginiajim on June 08, 2014, 11:43:54 PM
Excellent advice, Asif. Why don't you cross post that on our forum when you get a chance and if you are ever over here, I'll certainly offer you a martini or two.
I will do once I've tidied it up, and if The Wolf decides to do his bearings, I can do a proper write up with pics
What that should say is 'and if I decide to do The Wolf's bearings, I can do a proper write up with pics.
Its sounds very complicated does all that Asif but I guess it's like most things, bit of practice and it'll become second nature.
Ive just done mine, and as they were so difficult to remove i had some new spacers made that were easier to ' shift ' over to be able to whack the bearing out.
The bearings didn't need changing, but were only £35 so did them anyway.
Always pack the gap between dust cover and bearing with grease, a matter of course when wheel is out. ( which should be at least once a year, regardless of tyre changes. )
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on June 08, 2014, 10:01:26 PM
What was puzzling me over the weekend was the purpose of the spacer. A Google search showed that the spacer and bearing should have zero space between them, as you've stated above. I actually left the bearing almost snug to the bearing i.e. I can feel its just touching the bearing and with a little force can move the spacer to the side. That was deliberate on my part as moving the spacer with it snug to bearing make it difficult to move the spacer next time the bearings need replacing. In hindsight I should have put a notch in the spacer and fitted the bearing snug to the spacer. Which is what I'll do when I replace them next time.
I was having the same thoughts Asif. Manufacturers do not design and fit parts that are not required, so the spacer must perform a useful purpose. I think it must be there to stop the bearing inner races being pulled together (i.e. toward each other) when the spindle is tightened. As the outer races cannot move, this will put force on the bearing that it is not designed to cope with.
To stop the bearing inner races pulling together, the spacer needs to be snug between the bearings. If it is snug though, it makes it very tricky to remove the bearings next time. My dilemma is that if it is indeed meant to be snug, Kawasaki would have designed the spindle with a notch in it already.
I need to take a look at the wheel bearings on my ZX10R track bike. That has done 17k *hard* miles on its original wheel bearings, so I wonder if there is a design difference.
Martin.
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on June 08, 2014, 11:27:54 PM
Interesting, I've not tried that method. I take it you would need two washers, one just just shy of the bearing size, and the other larger than the recess (otherwise on the second bearing you could be pulling in the first one) with a long bolt and nut?
You would tighten on the opposite side to drive in the bearing? I assume you do that once the bearing is flush with the recess to prevent it going in at an angle?
Correct. On one side I use a lump of 1/4" plate steel with a suitable hole in it. This goes over the bearing recess. On the other side I have a large socket which is the perfect size, JUST fits in the recess and bears nicely on the outer race. I use a long bolt through the entire thing and slowly tighten against the socket, making sure all is lined up squarely. Its easy enough to see/tell when the bearing is fully home. Just do the same for the other side and Robert's your Mother's brother