Kawasaki 1400 GTR

1400 GTR - All Models => 1400GTR Discussion => Topic started by: viper on January 10, 2014, 10:31:54 PM

Title: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: viper on January 10, 2014, 10:31:54 PM
Just doing some maintenance on the GTR and dont really know how the rear adjuster works. In the past ive done the upside down trick soaking the adjuster itself in oil overnight . Today i thought Id undo the cable from the adjuster to check it over, oil came out!

Should oil be in there is is that just my over lubing in the past. How does the knob actually adjust the shocker, is it hydraulic ??

Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Teacher on January 11, 2014, 12:20:12 AM
I don't know how this works Viper but i would assume it's hydraulic.
Like you and others on this forum i have had problems with the adjuster.
I have had it soaking for the last week upside down in a cup of WD40. Also been sprayed with GT85 and oiled with 3 in 1 oil.
before this I couldn't adjust it on the bike as i couldn't get the leverage but now it turns smoothly and i have the 24 clicks back from full in to full out.
The bike is obviously out of warranty but ive only done nearly 8k (current odometer reading), mainly dry miles, and the bike was bought at just over two years old with 1600 miles on the clock.
A MandS motorcycles salesman at Newcastle said kawaski might do a new one under good will but I've never got round to it. i bought the bike at tillstons anyway, and have it serviced at an independent , so kawaski would probably shy off

The irony is that of the few bikes I've had i've never adjusted the suspension from stock but it's the fact the dam thing is there and not turning properly !!!
i love this bike mind; i went to swiss alps in the summer which was great and rode 850 miles back home in one day !! Bit knackered but far superior to my previous blackbird and VFR before that

Anyway back to yours; i suspect you might have lost some hydraulic fluid when you've took the hose off, are you sure it was oil?
Someone on here may shed some light but i think 2010 on is a non serviceable part otherwise kawaski would fix them. Right?

Oh and the weather is looking good tomorrow/today so I'm putting it back together and fgoing for a little bimble!!
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: pistole on January 11, 2014, 04:37:48 PM
you're not supposed to open up the hydraulic fittings.

its basically a piston pushing a column of oil which adjusts the preload mechanism at the shock.

that piston's position will change with adjustments of the pre-load knob.

I cannot think of a way you can replenish the oil without causing an air lock of some sort.

.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 11, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: pistole on January 11, 2014, 04:37:48 PM
you're not supposed to open up the hydraulic fittings.

its basically a piston pushing a column of oil which adjusts the preload mechanism at the shock.

that piston's position will change with adjustments of the pre-load knob.

I cannot think of a way you can replenish the oil without causing an air lock of some sort.

.

oh shit,  :cry:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: MGvalerio on January 11, 2014, 07:50:03 PM
Quote from: viper on January 11, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
oh shit,  :cry:



http://youtu.be/ret2_zXP_xs

MGvalerio :laugh:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: coman37 on January 11, 2014, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: viper on January 11, 2014, 07:01:05 PM
oh shit,  :cry:

Hi Viper,

   If you have shagged it, give me a call. I bought a 2nd hand one off e- bay to fit to my ZZR ( the ZZR doesn't have remote pre- load and I also thought the heavier spring would help the handling, turns out to be too long). It is in good unmarked condition and the knob turns freely £150 plus postage ( £20??) or free collection( Colchester)

Coman
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 11, 2014, 09:29:48 PM
i refuse to believe that just by undoing the cable union that ive completely shagged a perfectly good rear shocker!! how does kawasaki put the oil in?
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Lonewolf on January 11, 2014, 11:53:15 PM
As we all know the video MG has posted is from the earlier design of shock adjuster, which (perhaps) is better than the current one? There has been such a potentially high volume of failed/seized adjusters from the 2010+ models that it has to be asked why Kawasaki are still fitting them.

Viper would it be worth giving the tech guys at Kawasaki a call, Simon Chitty has always been extremely helpful and perhaps he can give a definitive answer as to whether your unit can be rebuilt. It may even be a case that it has to be returned to Kawasaki to repair. That would be a cheaper option than spending £600+ on a new one which is what they cost.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 12, 2014, 11:57:47 AM
Quote from: The Wolf on January 11, 2014, 11:53:15 PM
As we all know the video MG has posted is from the earlier design of shock adjuster, which (perhaps) is better than the current one? There has been such a potentially high volume of failed/seized adjusters from the 2010+ models that it has to be asked why Kawasaki are still fitting them.

Viper would it be worth giving the tech guys at Kawasaki a call, Simon Chitty has always been extremely helpful and perhaps he can give a definitive answer as to whether your unit can be rebuilt. It may even be a case that it has to be returned to Kawasaki to repair. That would be a cheaper option than spending £600+ on a new one which is what they cost.

Like
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Alfor on January 12, 2014, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: MGvalerio on January 11, 2014, 07:50:03 PM


http://youtu.be/ret2_zXP_xs

MGvalerio :laugh:

Glad I saw this video. Although my 2010 pre load looks different (no flats for a spanner) I was going to drill a 2mm hole in the knob to ease getting wd40 to the moving screw, from this video there is probable no benefit if the internal design is similar.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
dont drill a hole, unbolt the adjuster from the bike and hold it upside down, spay some oil into the cap and leave to soak overnight,. It does work
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Charlie747 on January 12, 2014, 08:37:05 PM
Quote from: viper on January 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
dont drill a hole, unbolt the adjuster from the bike and hold it upside down, spay some oil into the cap and leave to soak overnight,. It does work

You all sorted now Viper?
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 12, 2014, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: coman37 on January 11, 2014, 08:13:30 PM
Hi Viper,

   If you have shagged it, give me a call. I bought a 2nd hand one off e- bay to fit to my ZZR ( the ZZR doesn't have remote pre- load and I also thought the heavier spring would help the handling, turns out to be too long). It is in good unmarked condition and the knob turns freely £150 plus postage ( £20??) or free collection( Colchester)

Coman

thanks for the offer, is it off a 2010+ bike ?
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: coman37 on January 12, 2014, 10:30:04 PM
Hi Viper,

No it's from a 2009' which appear to be better engineered, the fitting/ length/ spring etc are all the same spec for all models I think.

Quite easy to change, helpful to have a third hand for some of it, even easier if you can get it on a bike lift

Let me know if you want it

Ps if anyone is watching this who can relay the part from Colchester to E Manchester area to save postage costs please advise

Coman
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: viper on January 12, 2014, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: coman37 on January 12, 2014, 10:30:04 PM
Hi Viper,

No it's from a 2009' which appear to be better engineered, the fitting/ length/ spring etc are all the same spec for all models I think.

Quite easy to change, helpful to have a third hand for some of it, even easier if you can get it on a bike lift

Let me know if you want it



Ps if anyone is watching this who can relay the part from Colchester to E Manchester area to save postage costs please advise

Coman

ive had a look at the fitting for the adjuster and it appears to be different, dont think it will bolt on to the existing bracket. the adjuster is defo a different design

ive took my shock out today,quite easy , this way i can work on my method for getting the oil back in, just wondering what type of oil kawasaki used
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Alfor on January 13, 2014, 05:42:45 PM
Quote from: viper on January 12, 2014, 08:19:05 PM
dont drill a hole, unbolt the adjuster from the bike and hold it upside down, spay some oil into the cap and leave to soak overnight,. It does work

Done that a few times, I was thinking a hole may be a short cut that would allow preventative maintenance  :smiley:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please?
Post by: Charlie747 on January 13, 2014, 11:00:13 PM
Quote from: coman37 on January 12, 2014, 10:30:04 PM
Hi Viper,

No it's from a 2009' which appear to be better engineered, the fitting/ length/ spring etc are all the same spec for all models I think.

Quite easy to change, helpful to have a third hand for some of it, even easier if you can get it on a bike lift

Let me know if you want it

Ps if anyone is watching this who can relay the part from Colchester to E Manchester area to save postage costs please advise

Coman
[/quot

I could be wrong but I thought the spring rate was increased from 2010 model year onwards  :smartass:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: viper on January 18, 2014, 03:00:06 PM
OK, Ive solved/fixed the dilema.

I foolishly unscrewed my preload adjuster from the cable that runs to the rear shock. I researched a way of putting it back together as I could not see any point to bleed out air, went on all sorts of forums and even the Concours owners group in the states told me the unit is now toast. Apparently mr kawasaki  makes the shock and the pre load adjuster as a sealed  unit and thats why the whole thing gets replaced when your adjuster knobs siezes. However , as with most things , there is a solution if you look hard enough, I absolutely refused to accept that i was going to trash my rear shock, i even contemplated assembling the whole thing in a bucket of oil.

these are the steps.

using Hydraulic jack oil from halfords

Fill the shock absorber itself with oil, this is only a very small amount . I did use a pair of spring compressors to compress the shock, this  allowed me to pump some air into the adjuster to force open the piston, i filled with oil and released the pressure on the springs, this forced the piston closed and pushed the oil out through the 10mm hole

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0004_zpsae6bb6ba.jpg)

next you need to fill the adjuster with oil. Back off the adjuster knob to its fully relaxed position. put some oil in through the 10mm hole, only a small amount will go in as the air will trap. Fill the pipe with oil. I did this by attaching a clear tube to the pipe and sucked fluid up through the pipe from a jar containing the fluid, I used a big syringe. Attach the pipe to the adjuster holding the adjuster upside down. Now the fluid will not get into the adjuster without some considerable pressure. With the whole thing still upside down keep forcing the fluid down by using the syringe. keep pulling the syringe back and after about 10 mins of this you will see the air bubbles streaming up the clear tube and you can keep forcing more fluid into the adjuster. you will need to refill the clear tube a few time and use cable ties to make all the connections oil tight.
these next pics explain it better

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0001_zpsdaf5aa3d.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0002_zps139f3218.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0007_zpsb8a82057.jpg)




i left the upside down assembly over night just to make sure all the oil was out.

Now to attach the two parts together , the shock will have oil filled to its brim and the adjuster and pipe will be filled to their brims and still some fluid will be in the clear pipe.
remove clear pipe and the excess oil will spill out and then quickly screw the pipe into the shock its self, for the brief moment you point the pipe down, no oil will actually come out, vacuum forces will hold it in

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0005_zps10f16964.jpg)


I cleaned everything up and am pleased to say that they adjuster works so much better than before, on the very first click i now can see the preload starting to operate, before nothing happend for 6 or 7 clicks, the knob felt sloppy and inactive, now its tight from the first turn. The preload can be seen to move out by about 15mm, which is the spec. Ive done a little video of the preload in operation.



video link

http://s55.photobucket.com/user/neill1200/media/2014/DSCF0008_zpsa7325f40.mp4.html


Just on a side note , I fitted a neoprene shock tube when i got the bike new and when i took it off for this job the shock was remarkably clean underneath , just a small amount of water staining. No solids or mud or grit at all, i dont have a hugger. Ive refitted the tube with its velcro and top and bottom cable ties. Ive got an even better fit than before as the shock is off the bike

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/2014/DSCF0009_zpse73a0e98.jpg)

Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on January 18, 2014, 04:45:03 PM
So Viper.. When/If I need mine doing I can come along to you.  :whistling:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: viper on January 18, 2014, 05:07:15 PM
id be happy to overhaul anyones knob on here, that includes you debs, seriously , yes id do this for anyone as its so easy. If your pre load adjuster does sieze up and you can pursuade kawasaki just to sell you the adjuster it will save you shed loads of cash!
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: MGvalerio on January 18, 2014, 05:44:03 PM
My compliments for the work done and intuition for how to do it .. BRAVO.


MGvalerio. :smiley:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: pistole on January 19, 2014, 01:43:26 AM
good job there !

.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Charlie747 on January 19, 2014, 04:36:51 AM
Quote from: pistole on January 19, 2014, 01:43:26 AM
good job there !

.

:agree:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Ant on January 19, 2014, 09:04:26 AM
 :sweet: where theres a will, theres a way....   great job.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Hans on January 19, 2014, 01:29:48 PM
Good work!
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Boomer on January 19, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
Quote from: viper on January 18, 2014, 05:07:15 PM
id be happy to overhaul anyones knob on here
PERVERT!  :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on January 19, 2014, 07:50:12 PM
Quote from: Boomer on January 19, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
PERVERT!  :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:

:mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on March 22, 2014, 04:01:26 PM
Mine is really  :censored:

(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y411/bikergirl1400/th_20140322_144624_converted_zps5a3b31bb.jpg) (http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y411/bikergirl1400/20140322_144624_converted_zps5a3b31bb.mp4)
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: shaggs147 on March 22, 2014, 04:16:06 PM
Sounds like a Yorkshire man's wallet Debs  :whistling:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on March 22, 2014, 05:06:16 PM
Quote from: shaggs147 on March 22, 2014, 04:16:06 PM
Sounds like a Yorkshire man's wallet Debs  :whistling:

:agree:  :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Kwikasfuki on March 22, 2014, 07:01:25 PM
Quote from: shaggs147 on March 22, 2014, 04:16:06 PM
Sounds like a Yorkshire man's wallet Debs  :whistling:

:mfr_lol:

Mine gets replaced under warranty next week

Do the replacement ones suffer the same issue?
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on March 22, 2014, 07:35:34 PM
Viper...

I would like to send it all to you to fix for me... Is it possible to take it all off while on the centre stand?

Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: shaggs147 on March 22, 2014, 08:50:15 PM
Debs have you tried unbolting the adjuster  from the bike, then put it in a small bag, fill it with wd40, seal the end and leave it  overnight. Seems to work for most people. Don't unbolt the adjuster from the hose though.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Debs on March 22, 2014, 09:00:07 PM
Quote from: shaggs147 on March 22, 2014, 08:50:15 PM
Debs have you tried unbolting the adjuster  from the bike, then put it in a small bag, fill it with wd40, seal the end and leave it  overnight. Seems to work for most people. Don't unbolt the adjuster from the hose though.

No I havn't... I did unbolt it from the frame, turn it upside down and put some oil around the cap in the hope it would soak through. I had to put it all back together as my flat mate wanted picking up from uni, and me being such a nice person I did.  :yes:

I will try that though
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: viper on March 22, 2014, 09:36:38 PM
I could help you debs , my pre load wasn't seized tho, I just was a numpty and undid the oil pipe. If it is seized its either the knob its self or the preload part inside the shocker. If its the shocker then maybe I can free it up for you . Its entirely at your risk and it may fail again in the future so only send it if the alternative is buying a new one. You will be without it for a week as Im stupid busy at work at the mo , so I will do it one free  evening, I may have to soak it for a day or so myself!
Try the soak method first overnight and see if that fixes it , ok!
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Lonewolf on March 22, 2014, 10:34:53 PM
Debs have you asked the dealer where you only recently got the bike from if they can help you. You've always had a good relationship with them perhaps they may be able to assist.
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: Teacher on March 23, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
I soaked mine(upside down) for nearly two weeks, a combination of wd40, oil and some sort of ptfe spray too. Also heated it with boiling water to help free it up, by kettles of hot water over the adjuster.
It now turns smoothly fully in and out with a total of 24 clicks. It took a while, soaking and turning it over the christmas hols, but its good now. Not sure how long it will last. Didn't have this problem with my VFR or Blackbird, but then the bird has no adjustment :wink:
Title: Re: Pre load rear adjuster, advice please? UPDATED SOLUTION
Post by: pistole on March 24, 2014, 01:51:41 PM
upside down , in a plastic bag filled with engine oil. Squeeze bag to force oil into the adjuster whilst turning the knob.

it'll work , eventually.

.