Once the winter is through, I am going to invest in either a 1400GTR or a Pan European. Is there anyone on here who has had both and can give me and honest comparison of the two bikes
The Pan was something I was looking at a few years back, but now pleased I didn't go for one through various reports I've heard over the years, but I believe they are a nice bike if you stick with it.
The only Pans I see now are in my mirrors fading off into the distance.....when the law enforcements stop using them because of issues its time to ask why ! ----- the Pan weave !
Im going to be bias anyway I guess, simply because I really don't like the look of them anymore.
Good luck with your choice, I'm sure it will be right for you. :yes:
There may be others here who have ridden a " job " Pan more than I have ... It was many years ago and only for a few weeks but I believe they were pulled from Police fleets as a result of a number of weave issues and indeed fatalities involving experienced Traffic Officers .. Honda have never accepted any liability for these incidents as far as I am aware and I believe it all has to do with the space between the rider and the radio mounting kits on the back of the bike causing turbulence and unbalance.
There is a chap I work with who is on his 3rd Pan and absolutely loves it to bits so there are many opinions to be offered up .... Me ? I went to the Gtr ( before defecting to the Gs ! )
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Rode a 'Job' Pan a few years back ( 1100) and a 1300 for a short time.We then opted for FJR's ...Retired last year and bought a GTR on an 09 plate
Last summer did a swap with a mate and rode his 1300 PAN for approx 50 miles . Mrs on the back and corbin seat fitted. SWMBO hated it..and the verdict from my mate riding my GTR?
He was shocked how well it went compared to his Pan..... As for my verdict.. I thought the pan would make a good workhorse, but not so "sharp" as the GTR
HTH :cool:
I think the 'Panny' is an 'older' design than the GTR, be around a while, with a few factory upgrades.
Not ridden one, but the various ride reports do like the (perceived?) bottom end pull of the Panny, 'supposed' to be an easier bike to ride at slower speeds(?), seems like BS to me, as the GTR will pull from 25 mph in 5th!, 6th being an Overdrive.
The GTR is, IMHO, a sports bike with a big fairing, it goes like :shit: of a shovel! It cruises at 100 mph at 4500 rpm in 6th. Various reports bitch about the tank range of 'only' 200 miles, but that is realistically going to be 2.5/3.0 hours in the saddle, so time for a stretch/piss/coffee anyways, and who wants to be in the saddle for 10 hours straight anyways? i.e. the point of the journey is not the arrival, or something like that....
Hi mate :smiley: I've ridden the ST1100 and the ST1300 through work and owned the 2010 GTR1400 for 2 years and did various long weekends away and a weeks long and 3,200 mile tour of France and Italy on the GTR. the ST1300 pan in it's day was good :yes: but things have now moved on :smiley: and the pan as stayed still :yes: defo no contest :nono: the GTR1400 is the way to go :clap:
Owned a Pan 13 and 1400GTR. Rode St11 and ST13 for work.
Have tested the Pan and 1400GTR back to back several times.
Pan is a good bike, works well lacks a bit of ground clearance but is low and well balanced. Quite a relaxed riding position for rider and pillion. Goes well enough at real world speeds and is overall a fantastic tourer with reasonable sportiness to enjoy a play on. Weather protection with the barn door fairing is excellent, but in hot weather prevents air getting to cool you
GTR is a rocket machine, turbine like power and is definitely a SPORTS tourer. Front end needs to be worked to make it ride well and as a result is fun. A high bike, both to sit on and a little top heavy until going. Footpegs for pillion are high so some may find ergonomics uncomfortable. Weather protection is fairly poor, keeps some weather off but not as effective as Pan (or RT but better than the FJR!) but is better when it gets hot!
If you like relaxed touring but still want to play at reasonable speeds in comfort then the Pan is probably better.
If you want to get there is reasonable comfort but really play then the GTR is a better choice.
Pan = sports/TOURER
GTR =SPORTS/tourer
Personal choice/preference which may also come down to looks personal style etc.
I would say test ride both (with/without pillion) before committing.
I had this very dilemma and it took me over 12 months to decide which one.
I had been riding a BMW F800GS and wanted a pure road bike, something bigger, sportier and easily capable of long distance touring. It came down to the Pan V. GTR. Others sport tourers were available but were out of my price range or just didn't peak my interest. Of my 'sport touring' choices I saw the Pan lean more toward touring and the GTR lean more toward sport. But with a few mods I could make the GTR more touring friendly and get the best of both worlds. I had largely set my mind on a GTR but wanted to try the Pan just to rule it out but having tried one it became a serious contender. After lots of side by side test rides I eventually went for a 2011 GTR. Why?
Here was my thinking on the Pan. The 2 big things for me were firstly that the Pan has a bigger fuel tank, which means a longer range and not having to stop as often for fuel. Secondly it had better wind protection with nice fairing and an electric screen that goes way way up. The weather protection was especially good with the upper and lower wind deflector kits installed. The Pan was also very comfy, with an adjustable seat height and it was very easy to ride with plenty of power. It had heated grips and a couple of glove boxes. It could easily handle high miles but the handling was patchy, I felt the infamous high speed weave but it's general handling was also poor, especially at high speeds with the top box. It lacks a 6th gear, it lacks a gear indicator and it seriously needs a dashboard revamp. The bike has not changed since 2004. So buying a 2004+ model, with low miles or even with a reasonable mileage is a promising prospect... but it wasn't the GTR.
I was leaning toward the GTR because it's sportier, it handles better and looks better. The 2010 had some real nice toys too: traction control, fancy braking, awesome engine and shaft drive, heated grips, tyre pressure sensors relocated mirrors, which gave improved wind protection as well as a better rear view, a relocated glove box (despite leaving a shitty cover behind and not putting a glove box on the opposite side fairing) and a taller touring screen. BTW I really love Kipass (also on pre 2010). It has a gear indicator, a 6th gear called over drive and an eco mode that will remap for better fuel efficiency, which essentially cancelled out the main weakness of a smaller tank - I could probably get as good a range on this. It wasn't quite as comfy or as easy to ride as the Pan but bar risers and foot peg lowering would remedy that. Sorted!
The Pan is just too dated and despite its limited strengths the handling put me off, especially compared to the GTR. You get a lot more bike for your money with a GTR as well.
Quote from: Winston Smith on December 04, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Owned a Pan 13 and 1400GTR. Rode St11 and ST13 for work.
Have tested the Pan and 1400GTR back to back several times.
Pan is a good bike, works well lacks a bit of ground clearance but is low and well balanced. Quite a relaxed riding position for rider and pillion. Goes well enough at real world speeds and is overall a fantastic tourer with reasonable sportiness to enjoy a play on. Weather protection with the barn door fairing is excellent, but in hot weather prevents air getting to cool you
GTR is a rocket machine, turbine like power and is definitely a SPORTS tourer. Front end needs to be worked to make it ride well and as a result is fun. A high bike, both to sit on and a little top heavy until going. Footpegs for pillion are high so some may find ergonomics uncomfortable. Weather protection is fairly poor, keeps some weather off but not as effective as Pan (or RT but better than the FJR!) but is better when it gets hot!
If you like relaxed touring but still want to play at reasonable speeds in comfort then the Pan is probably better.
If you want to get there is reasonable comfort but really play then the GTR is a better choice.
Pan = sports/TOURER
GTR =SPORTS/tourer
Personal choice/preference which may also come down to looks personal style etc.
I would say test ride both (with/without pillion) before committing.
thats a damn good review, i too have thought about the pan as a next bike
thanks
Welcome guzuntai, as you can see this is a very helpful and informative forum where members will give you unbiased practical views based on their considerable experiences.
For me the only real way to decide upon any bike regardless of make or type is to give it a thorough road test and try to simulate all your expected riding conditions/requirements
Good luck with your choice, which ought to be a GTR :yes:
Guzuntai,......... Bless You! :mfr_lol:
If you are over 6' tall then you may have problems with your knees on the Pan.
This is not so bad with the 1300 as it was with the 1100.
I'm 6'4" and the 1100 was nearly unrideable unless you like doing the splits.
As others have said, GTR is sharper, sportier but not as comfy, and loves being pushed hard.
Pan is a Sofa on wheels (think mini-Goldwing) that can be pushed in the twisties if necessary, but not as fun as the GTR.
Ride both and then decide is your best bet.
Quote from: Nix1.4 on December 04, 2013, 05:53:51 PM
I think the 'Panny' is an 'older' design than the GTR, be around a while, with a few factory upgrades.
Not ridden one, but the various ride reports do like the (perceived?) bottom end pull of the Panny, 'supposed' to be an easier bike to ride at slower speeds(?), seems like BS to me, as the GTR will pull from 25 mph in 5th!, 6th being an Overdrive.
The GTR is, IMHO, a sports bike with a big fairing, it goes like :shit: of a shovel! It cruises at 100 mph at 4500 rpm in 6th. Various reports bitch about the tank range of 'only' 200 miles, but that is realistically going to be 2.5/3.0 hours in the saddle, so time for a stretch/piss/coffee anyways, and who wants to be in the saddle for 10 hours straight anyways? i.e. the point of the journey is not the arrival, or something like that....
:agree:
Doesn't the FJR consider a mention here?
I would have thought it was a bit sportier than a Pan and in a similar vein to a GTR?
I quite like the look of them and although I've never ridden one would consider one as an alternative to the GTR I currently own.
Quote from: winnsworld on December 08, 2013, 05:36:34 PM
Doesn't the FJR consider a mention here?
I would have thought it was a bit sportier than a Pan and in a similar vein to a GTR?
I quite like the look of them and although I've never ridden one would consider one as an alternative to the GTR I currently own.
Rode a cop FJR from 2008 until I retired last year.... Excellent bike , but the older one was getting a bit long in the tooth , and I fancied something different, hence the GTR.
I can say that I will never ride a bike as well as I did the FJR....when you're using one as a work tool in all weathers, and being regularly assessed on it you certainly get to know it well... And if I was told an FJR was the only bike I could ride, then that would be absolutely fine with me....would probably go for the model update one though. :police:
Quote from: winnsworld on December 08, 2013, 05:36:34 PM
Doesn't the FJR consider a mention here?
Nope. The OP asked about the Pan V. The GTR.
In my opinion :smiley: As far as distance and sporty grand tourers are concerned the Present GTR1400 is the best on the market and the fact it's not the most expensive is a bonus :yes: it's a lot of bike for the money :clap: I only sold my 2010 GTR due to wanting the new model zzr1441 :smiley: in-fact.. if Kawasaki introduce a new model this will cause me a problem :sad: due to me liking my zzr and versys and don't think my better half would be to happy if "two became three" :no:
The new FJR is an OK bike. Sorry Bryn, previous one in my opinion was a god awful bike - had one on the job and found it understeered until it oversteered then regularly tried to kill me!
OK in a straight line with a stonking engine.
Civvie spec it's either panniers OR top case as Yamaha don't authorise both (which isn't good that they don't trust it to have all three on!!)
Crappest weather protection of all the current crop of Sport/Tourers too.
Great engine though, but five gears? Really??
Quote from: 2kwacks on December 08, 2013, 09:11:16 PM...the fact it's not the most expensive is a bonus...
Very true. I compared my Tessie (2011 GTR) to a similarly aged Pan and my GTR came out £2-3K cheaper! When you consider what you get with the GTR compared to the Pan... :shocked:
The GTR wins hands down every time.
One last test.
Remove the panniers from the GTR and admire the lines.
Remove the panniers from the ST1300,.... and puke in the gutter. :mfr_lol:
(https://www.motorcycle.com/images/content/Shoot-Out/AP_04_Tour_0356.jpg)
Quote from: Boomer on December 09, 2013, 11:32:33 AM
One last test.
Remove the panniers from the GTR and admire the lines.
Remove the panniers from the ST1300,.... and puke in the gutter. :mfr_lol:
(https://www.motorcycle.com/images/content/Shoot-Out/AP_04_Tour_0356.jpg)
Remove the panniers from the GTR and admire the lines.. well I wouldn't go as far as that :no: but :agree: it's a much better bike than the pan :smiley: with or with panniers :laugh:
The GTR without the panniers still looks a credible sports bike, the Pan looks pants. I did go look at a Pan before I bought the GTR, it was an ex Police Pan, cheap and cheerful but even my wife who hates bikes said it looked dated and that the GTR she had seen in a photo looked much better....who was I to disagree with the wife? The rest as they say is history. :mfr_lol:
Quote from: 2kwacks on December 08, 2013, 09:11:16 PM
In my opinion :smiley: As far as distance and sporty grand tourers are concerned the Present GTR1400 is the best on the market and the fact it's not the most expensive is a bonus :yes: it's a lot of bike for the money :clap: I only sold my 2010 GTR due to wanting the new model zzr1441 :smiley: in-fact.. if Kawasaki introduce a new model this will cause me a problem :sad: due to me liking my zzr and versys and don't think my better half would be to happy if "two became three" :no:
You are sooooo right! I luuurve my GTR! I don't think the pan had a chance against us partisan lot. It's a good enough bike but its too dated to be a real contender side by side with ours.
I'm just a bit surprised that earlier this year there was more support for BMW than I'd expect here. I can't imagine many compliments for our choice of bike coming from the Ruhr!
Quote from: tommytool on December 09, 2013, 10:32:05 PM
You are sooooo right! I luuurve my GTR! I don't think the pan had a chance against us partisan lot. It's a good enough bike but its too dated to be a real contender side by side with ours.
I'm just a bit surprised that earlier this year there was more support for BMW than I'd expect here. I can't imagine many compliments for our choice of bike coming from the Ruhr!
You're so right.........................................so many are sucked in and :surrender: to the Mighty Munich Marketing Machine :popcorn:
:listencarefully: Ye pays ye money etc etc :mfr_lol:
I rode the ST1300 at work for a couple of years until they pulled them and put an angle grinder through the frame. I was a comfortable bike, took a bit to get it going, was very bad on fuel.
If you like your speed like I do then you would find it disappointing, and they didn't like stopping.
I had one go into a weave at about 110mph and I scared the life out of me, I really thought I was going to bin it.
Honda have never admitted the fault, some say it had something to with the torque settings on the swing arm and something to do with all the extras the police used to bolt on. They were finally withdrawn after a coroners recommendation which was made at Hondas own test rider was killed on a test track riding a Pan 13
I looked at a FJR but my price range of 8k I could only afford the old shape.
Then I went for a test ride on a GTR.
It just so happened that the GTR was parked next to a FJR, and the FJR looked so dated against the GTR.
Well the test ride went well but you can't really push it when its a shops bike.
But I knew it was for me and bought it.
My first real test was in France last year, what a fantastic bike, good on fuel, comfortable, carry loads of weight, stable, goes like the clappers.
Went away with a 2 fireblades and a bmw 1000RR, the only one to get near me was the RR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t4vCvwdMQA&feature=youtu.be
That was like watching a video of myself and Dave coming back from Shropshire last year. :whistling:
Hi Guzuntai,
I have had the ST 1100 which was a lovely bike then I got an 06 plate ST1300 which I really enjoyed and it was reasonably rapid and surprised many of my mates certainly sportier than the 1100. The missus liked it and it did everything well but I missed what I think of as the thrill factor so I kept an Aprilla RSV for my Sunday thrash with the lads. I put thousands of miles on both Pans all over the UK & Europe and they were trouble free and fun but still that 'something' missing. I have to say that I rode the Pans hard with and without luggage and never ever experience the dreaded Pan 'weave' . I believe has a lot to do with centre of gravity the weight of police issue radios and aerodynamics. I have few chums in the 'job' hugely experienced and confident lads who are surprisingly naughty when they are not dressed for work :)
Both of them have had first hand and scary experience of the 'weave' and yet one of them still rides a Pan and the other thrashed mine mercilessy whenever the opportunity arose but never replicated it in civilian mode.
Anyway one day somebody very kindly ran over the Pan in a truck whislt it was parked up and totalled it so I had a loan FJR which I became quite attached to, so I decided to buy one however missus did not like it at all! I was about to go back to the Pan when my local dealer (Dobles) suggested I take a spin on px GTR that had just come in to them.
I swear withing 200 yards I knew I was going to keep it! smooth, very rapid, looks good with out without the panniers and top box which the Pan never did! Once you get rid of the spud launcher on the side you end up with a fabulous all rounder that always delights, keeps up with anything out there if you want to be a hooligan, is reasonably economical if ridden sensibly (difficult to do) but I always look forward to every journey.
The missus likes it and I LOVE it! I got rid of the Aprilia because this gives me everything I need and whilst I had great fun on the Honda's the GTR is so much smoother so much quicker and so much more enjoyable! I shall def have a new model in the next year or so but could not go back to a Pan now for love nor money.
Take your time spend some time on both and give them both a good test ride, if you ride with your partner take them out with you and I suspect one of them will leave a mark on you and help you choose!
Enjoy and be safe
Ming
I've never ridden the Pan. I just don't like the look of it..
No point in test riding it if I don't like the look :no:
Quote from: Debs on December 16, 2013, 05:45:05 PM
I've never ridden the Pan. I just don't like the look of it..
No point in test riding it if I don't like the look :no:
:agree: I've always placed a bikes looks as one of the first requirements, if it looks pants then it probably will be pants.
Then I went and bought a Versys 1000 which some say is Fugly, :mfr_lol: well yeah I kinda agree, it is a bit fugly....... BUT hells bells its a bloody good bike which destroys my theory completely :clap:
Quote from: O.C. on December 16, 2013, 07:25:18 PM
:agree: I've always placed a bikes looks as one of the first requirements, if it looks pants then it probably will be pants.
Then I went and bought a Versys 1000 which some say is Fugly, :mfr_lol: well yeah I kinda agree, it is a bit fugly....... BUT hells bells its a bloody good bike which destroys my theory completely :clap:
The Tiger 955i was a real head turner - most in the opposite direction, but the bike was so good at what it did I didn't care!
For the sports/tourers my opinion for looks is 1st FJR, 2nd GTR, 3rd Triumph ST.
Of course looks ain't everything ( just as well says the missus) :mfr_lol:
I've ridden a T reg pan. Was like riding a tank. My friend loves em though
Good article in this months RIDE magazine about buying a used GTR. Worth a read for anyone looking to buy one, but only info that can be gleaned from sites like this, nothing new.
Mark
:biker3:
:agree: with Tommytool ...the FJR is, in my opinion, a very good looking machine, but I've never ridden one so wouldn't know about its road characteristics
I suppose we shouldn't judge a book by its cover :no:
Quote from: Wirralmark on December 17, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
Good article in this months RIDE magazine about buying a used GTR. Worth a read for anyone looking to buy one, but only info that can be gleaned from sites like this, nothing new.
Mark
:biker3:
Info WAS gleaned from sites such as this and other GTR owners. It was researched to get a good overview of the bike from those who know
There's very little on a positive note ever written about the GTR in reviews etc, which as we all know is very unjustified. Seems a shame really and I often wonder if that's why the GTR doesn't seem to hold its resale value too well.
Quote from: The Wolf on December 17, 2013, 05:31:38 PM
There's very little on a positive note ever written about the GTR in reviews etc, which as we all know is very unjustified. Seems a shame really and I often wonder if that's why the GTR doesn't seem to hold its resale value too well.
It's because it's not a BMW.... :whistling:
Quote from: Winston Smith on December 17, 2013, 06:36:58 PM
It's because it's not a BMW.... :whistling:
Many a true word said in jest. :popcorn:
All joking apart, the value of all bikes at resale is crap. Mine's worth about 2/3 what I paid for it in 19 months, but as it has been said before (Geoff I believe) bikes are worth what you pay and lose on them for the pleasure you get from them
The BMW badge seems to halve the rate of depreciation no matter how crap the bike is.
Used prices for the truly atrocious C1 is a classic example.
But then you extra pay up front for the badge so the amount lost evens out eventually.
Depreciation is the price of enjoyment.
My bikes never depreciate as I rarely sell them, just ride them into the ground.
Quote from: Boomer on December 18, 2013, 10:42:29 AM
The BMW badge seems to halve the rate of depreciation no matter how crap the bike is.
Used prices for the truly atrocious C1 is a classic example.
:agree: mmmm I wonder why that is :mfr_lol:
Quote from: O.C. on December 18, 2013, 11:23:34 AM
:agree: mmmm I wonder why that is :mfr_lol:
:agree: You try and get out of that product once your locked in :death:
Good list price to get you interested in the product...............But.................without extensive options added at point of order a very bland experience...............the options only help sell the bike when you finish with it and do NOT add to its book value
It appears that you may missed the cynicism of my point there Charlie :mfr_lol:
Has Guzuntai posted anywhere since his/her first post?
Most discussions I take part in involve 2 way communication.
Guzuntai, where are you?
Quote from: O.C. on December 19, 2013, 08:16:18 AM
It appears that you may missed the cynicism of my point there Charlie :mfr_lol:
:oops: Put it down to a senior moment fellow motor trader :mfr_lol:
Quote from: O.C. on December 17, 2013, 08:52:57 AM
:agree: with Tommytool ...the FJR is, in my opinion, a very good looking machine, but I've never ridden one so wouldn't know about its road characteristics
I suppose we shouldn't judge a book by its cover :no:
I looked........and looked, and sat on the New one for an hour while chatting to Doc from our club, who test rode the new one and knows FJRs inside out. Would I change the GTR for the new one..? No is the answer.
I would have one aswell, but I already do and there isn't a massive difference between Gen 1s and Gen 4s to warrant an £11k change.
I have the GTR set up so I can travel for 10hrs plus if needed, in comfort. Cruise without feeling that I'm revving the nuts of it, enough gadgets to keep me interested, bigger capacity panniers, more room for the Mrs on the back, old fashioned dials to look at instead of digital ( personal thing ).
Don't get me wrong, I love the FJR.............but now enjoy riding the GTR more.