Just wondering what our boys in blue have to say about this one on youtube.
It is being commented on, on another Kawasaki forum with the usual polarised opinions.If the camera car had been old bill then I reckon.....
1/ Speeding
2/ Crossing white line
What others would you have stopped him for, and what do all us other riders think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6Z_fcGsko&feature=youtu.be
Another 'organ donor' about to meet his/her maker..................what a tosser
What a :censored: idiot..
He should be fined for that. He wasn't thinking was he, as he didn't see the 'Think Bike Think Biker' in the rear window. Bloody impatient :censored: moron.. :hammer:
Quote from: olde coney on May 03, 2013, 09:31:43 AM
Another 'organ donor' about to meet his/her maker..................what a tosser
:agree:
A moments madness can sometimes be a lifetime of regret, clearly there was no real need to do what they did, they were lucky.
A corpse looking for his burial site?
in my "the speed limit doesn't count in certain situations book" a 40 mph speed limit there is just stupid. the rider actually comments what are all these cones doing with nobody working etc.
if the cam rider had seen the approaching bike behind him and moved over slightly then there would have been no need for him to go over the white line.
and if you overtake I reckon it is much safer to do it quickly and safely and give as much room as possible.
especially someone who obviously hasn't seen you and is too busy trying to look and sound good for a potential youtube clip.
the only thing that stops you from driving to the conditions in that scenario is a stupid speed limit enforced for when there is work going on.
im guessing it was a sunday and the road was empty.
no real problem in my book.
but then again i'm not a policeman.
I know from experience if you ride fast you have to concentrate to the max and when you dawdle along your mind wanders looking at scenery and talking into mics etc
I know which rider is more tuned in and more likely to react to a sudden situation.
we used to call it the "I wonder whats for tea" scenario.
im not naïve enough to know which rider would get nicked tho.
a copper on a ride course or speeding seminar once told us all, "we know you aren't all gone leave this room and be cured of speeding.
we will all speed at some time or other. we just hope you will leave this room and think a bit more about when its not safe to speed.
be aware.
I know which rider wasn't aware in that clip.
Quote from: aljaxon on June 15, 2013, 01:04:55 PM
the only thing that stops you from driving to the conditions in that scenario is a stupid speed limit enforced for when there is work going on.
im guessing it was a sunday and the road was empty.
Hi
I agree with the essence of what you are saying, but:
in the clip they pass 2 workers and a work vehicle on the left just before he overtakes.
As for the front rider not making room for him, he came up so quick, from the clock on the clip there is only 5 seconds from him first appearing to passing, and the rider was looking where he should have been, at what was in front of him approaching the roundabout.
What if there had been something on the road, front bike moves right to miss it, not expecting someone to be flashing past him
It was a daft overtake, mainly because the front bike did not know it was happening, because the back bike did it all too quickly.
Richard
Quote from: Richard on June 15, 2013, 03:22:11 PM
Hi
I agree with the essence of what you are saying, but:
in the clip they pass 2 workers and a work vehicle on the left just before he overtakes.
As for the front rider not making room for him, he came up so quick, from the clock on the clip there is only 5 seconds from him first appearing to passing, and the rider was looking where he should have been, at what was in front of him approaching the roundabout.
What if there had been something on the road, front bike moves right to miss it, not expecting someone to be flashing past him
It was a daft overtake, mainly because the front bike did not know it was happening, because the back bike did it all too quickly.
Richard
The camera was mounted in a car and not on a bike
oops I didnt see the truck and workers :embarrassed:
and the back guy prob would have seen if there was anything in the road ahead of the other bike unless it was right in front of the cam bike.
which to be honest it could have been due to the "look at all them ice cream cones" mentality of the cam biker.
usually its instantly clear if I can overtake or not. a lot of my pals cant do this and need a second or two.
but when I was out yesterday talking to my wife on the headset a few times my mind was so switched off it was unreal.
I even said to her don't talk to me when im doing stuff because even though I try to blank you it still knackers up my concentration. men and multi tasking etc
I went on my second ride course/seminar for double white line infringement last summer and I got roped in with a load of "illegal mobile phone use in car" drivers.
the lecturer pointed out that even hands free phone calls take away part of the concentration that is needed to drive a vehicle.
he pointed out we have become so blasé and over confident in our ability to drive/ride and he backed it up with video evidence.
but I knew he was right anyway.
for me its full concentration or I become a liability. intercom plus sat nav yesterday and I had to slow down to take it all in.
by rights he shouldn't have overtook, but he did. then for me he should do it as safely as possible using the full width of the road ignoring white lines etc which again should have told him he shouldn't be overtaking.
if he's gonna do it, do it quickly and as safely as possible. usually white lines on a road lose their significance when driving in coned off lanes and if a vehicle needs to cross over the solid white line either to avoid something or due to width then he should be allowed to contravene the white line law in order to drive safely.
the police would no doubt disagree.
speed limits are usually in place to reflect hazard level and are mainly tailored around cars and their ability to slow down and steer..
in dry conditions they penalise bikes too much with their vastly superior braking from say 100 down to 40 in the same time a car takes to get from 60 to 40.
in crap weather bikes are more of a hazard then cars.
hardly anyone is gonna agree with me and I know I am partly playing devils advocate here but nothing pee's me off more than driving to the airport in my car for my holiday to be slowed down to 50 by 15 miles of cones and no actual work is being carried out.
rant over.... :gun_bandana:
camera in a car not a bike?
hahaha was it?
that's my hazard perception shot then. I missed the gorilla walking past too!!!
Quote from: Debs on June 15, 2013, 04:38:18 PM
The camera was mounted in a car and not on a bike
:mfr_lol: so it was, that makes it worse, all it would have taken was a cone out of line, move over a bit to miss it at the wrong moment, bye bye bike
Well, at least he's using all the road to maximise his progress. :wink:
I bet that car was a reliant robin
Here's a question - particluarly for those who seem to think the motorcylist overtaking the car was ok
What would say if it was the other way round ie the car overtook motorcylists - literally swap the twp vehicles around?
Would you regard it as being ok?
Would you regard the car driver "is more tuned in and more likely to react to a sudden situation"?
Or would you reghard the car driver as a complete idiot putting a motorcylist at risk?
Quote from: routemaster on June 16, 2013, 02:32:38 AM
Here's a question - particluarly for those who seem to think the motorcylist overtaking the car was ok
What would say if it was the other way round ie the car overtook motorcylists - literally swap the twp vehicles around?
Would you regard it as being ok?
Would you regard the car driver "is more tuned in and more likely to react to a sudden situation"?
Or would you reghard the car driver as a complete idiot putting a motorcylist at risk?
- cars and motorcycles are different. How we pass , how we overtake and how we use the road is different. People who ride their bikes like they drive their cars are ... umm .. not smart.
- as for that biker, its just making good progress at a steady rate of speed. Rather than being stuck behind that vehicle and end up having to mix it up with prevailing traffic (basic riding rule : never hang around , always be faster than overall traffic).
- the fellow who uploaded the vid is probably just unhappy at being passed, just like those American drivers who will move over to block a rider who is lane splitting.
- good on the biker for making progress.
.
This clip is in slightly different circumstances ie no roadworks but in essence its not much different.
http://youtu.be/CiRCSv2Lycs (http://youtu.be/CiRCSv2Lycs)
So why can't you say "it just making good progress at a steady rate of speed. Rather than being stuck behind that vehicle and end up having to mix it up with prevailing traffic (basic rule : never hang around , always be faster than overall traffic). Good on them for making progress"
If you apply the above for a rider why can't you apply the same for the car driver???
This car driver was making the maximum use of the available tarmac, they did it quickly..................... etc etc
I don't think there is any justification for the stupid biker overtake - the rider is an idiot and they were lucky.
I think both overtakes are stupid, un-necessary and inappropriate.
Not the best of places to overtake, but I've seen worse .... :rolleyes: (referring to the first clip)
As far as the second clip is concerned... I'd say its down to lane ownership... the bike has moved over towards lane 1, and I assumed he would keep going, the car has reacted ( a little early) and passed.
The GTR was still occpying a third of the lane 2 and wasn't moving to lane 1 but it is possible for the driver to have had that impression but the car driver was in a hurry and being very impatient
Quote from: routemaster on June 16, 2013, 10:17:19 AM
The GTR was still occpying a third of the lane 2 and wasn't moving to lane 1 but it is possible for the driver to have had that impression but the car driver was in a hurry and being very impatient
. :death:
Come on, he is moving over to let the car pass - so what is your problem?
The bike is on the left hand side of the line - if that is in your opinion a third of the right hand lane I wouldn't want to share the same road with you. :ohplease:
I wouldn't want to see the day when a van pulls away from me like that on a motorway. :mfr_lol:
I guess that will be the day I give up riding my bike and move into a retirement home
If this had happened in France or Italy, there would not be two pages discussing it on the forum.
Personally I wouldn't make either manoever, but it's not just about safety, it's about respecting others. How do you make the other driver feel with your riding / driving style? Manage other's level of road rage :)
If someone came up to go past me like that and I was in the car, I'd have remarked something like " :censored: tw@t" and then forgotton about it. I just try and keep out of everyone's way and go as far as possible to have a good safety/fun/respectful compromise
My 2 cents...
Ros
What we don't know and can't see is if the driver has seen him coming in the first place ... on the video it all looks very sudden and a bit "iffy" but the road is clear and dry and to be fair he can probably see through or past the car he's overtaking, so with hand on heart I can't really see a problem with it...... but you wouldn't pass your Class 1 if you did that ! :mfr_lol:
My main thought on that was, why risk your tyres riding on that part of the road. That side of the white line is likely to be covered in :shit: Cracking way to get a puncture in those PR3's, Angel GT's or whatever your chosen may be
I must admit I do a lot of overtaking in places where I feel its safe but the white lines should be prohibiting me.
I apply logic over the law. wrong I know but . .
last summer I overtook on double white lines that are all the way past a cross roads in a dip.
but once past the junction with a clear view its safe to overtake but the white lines forbid it.
I got nicked by a police car hidden well out of site.
diagonal lines usually peter out after a hazard and the last few yards prohibit overtaking robbing the biker of valuable tarmac to overtake more safely but just like the edge of a road the diagonal lines are usually full of rubbish/gravel and carry a risk of punctures
to me the bike is moving to the left and virtually on the white lines abnd its fair to assume the car is expecting him to either move even more or allow him to pass.
why else would the bike ride on the white lines?
the car can easily overtake him with a yard to spare.
I overtake cars with a lot less room and I presume a lot of us do.
Aljaxon, I'm shocked that you still have a licence :sweatdrop: .....you do still have a licence don't you? :mfr_lol:
I would never overtake on double or solid white lines....NEVER, they are there for a reason. Apart from the safety implications, if I got caught doing that I'd run the risk of losing my HGV licence. :nono:
Quote from: aljaxon on June 16, 2013, 10:34:24 PM
diagonal lines usually peter out after a hazard and the last few yards prohibit overtaking robbing the biker of valuable tarmac to overtake more safely
If you mean hatch markings, then if they are bordered by a broken white line at the exit to a hazard, then its ok to enter them... same with some roads that have a red strip of tarmac in the middle with hatch markings, and broken white hazard lines... nothing to stop you overtaking there....
As far as solid white lines are concerned... they mean 'do not cross this line' unless you need to overtake a cyclist/milk float/tractor that is crawling along... or indeed to turn right at a junction, or to avoid an accident :smiley:
They don't necessarily mean no overtaking
The magic number being 10mph!
10mph? I didn't know that.
So the police need 2 lasers at the same time - one for milk floats and the other for the speeding loon overtaking it across solid lines :popcorn:
If there's a protected right turn with hatch markings , and the edge of the hatch markings has a broken line... I'd have been criticised on my re-tests for not commencing an overtake on the exit side, across the broken lines and the hatch markings :laugh:
There was never any worry about what shit there was in the hatched area.... as we didn't have to pay for replacement tyres :cheesy:
Im all for making progress if its appropriate and safe. That was neither. He got to the roundabout less than two seconds ahead of the car.
As for clip two - if I had to guess..... the biker probably was being tailgated and 'pushed' along by the idiot in the cavalier. he probably moved over to allow the effing ididot to get past him and so regain his safety bubble.
Personally I cannot see how any biker could think vid one was a 'ok' manoever. yeah, yeah he got through quickly and obviosuly there was enough room. But really.......?????
Its one thing riding for yourself and being selfish - but maybe the 'bigger picture' needs to be considered. I try to treat other road users how I would like to be treated. Doesn't always work and you cannot do anything for some idiots. But mostly car drivers are exactly the same as me when I am in my car.
It doesnt do any harm to consider yourself an 'ambassador' for bikers when out riding......
Quote from: kwarrgtr on June 17, 2013, 05:09:17 PM
It doesnt do any harm to consider yourself an 'ambassador' for bikers when out riding......
Started reading your post and you beat me to it at the end :wink:
A good philosophy :agree:
Quote from: kwarrgtr on June 17, 2013, 05:09:17 PM
As for clip two - if I had to guess..... the biker probably was being tailgated and 'pushed' along by the idiot in the cavalier. he probably moved over to allow the effing ididot to get past him and so regain his safety bubble.
If there is an effing idiot in that clip it's the biker not the driver of the car. :ohplease:
He wasn't overtaking so why was he hogging the right hand lane in the first place?
So I would say both clips show stupid bikers! :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: routemaster on June 16, 2013, 10:17:19 AM
The GTR was still occpying a third of the lane 2 and wasn't moving to lane 1 but it is possible for the driver to have had that impression but the car driver was in a hurry and being very impatient
the bike left a car sized space ..... (is that not an inivte to go through it?) and hence did not claim the lane.
overtaking is allowed on a road with double white lines.
both at crawling speed and at 60mph. the copper on the course told me I shouldn't have even been nicked.
I have a clean license. I had 7 points in 2007 but done 2 seminars since. yippee!!
I always wave every single car that moves over for me and I never tailgate the ones that don't.
most of my pals hover real close waiting to overtake but I know that unnerves drivers, so I either hang back and time my approach or just overtake if its safe to do so.
its mad up where we live. 2 weeks ago one pal out with us got nicked twice in three hours. 106 in a 60 and 64 in a 40.
got let off with 3 pts and a 60 quid fine for the ton plus but a court date for the 64 in a 40.
and last weekend my neighbour got done 79 in a 60 an put on a seminar.
I thought the diagonal lines couldn't be crossed but now know its the bounding lines that count thanks to this thread.
Quote from: aljaxon on June 17, 2013, 07:19:47 PM
I thought the diagonal lines couldn't be crossed but now know its the bounding lines that count thanks to this thread.
As long as you enter after the protected right turn , and not across the right turn.... :yes:
Quote from: aljaxon on June 17, 2013, 07:19:47 PM
overtaking is allowed on a road with double white lines.
both at crawling speed and at 60mph.
Overtaking is permitted potentially depending on what you are overtaking but not if it requires you to straddle a solid white line to your offside and not if the vehicle you are overtaking is travelling at a speed greater than 10mph.
yeah its the crossing the white line that counts
otherwise you can overtake