Ok here I go.
Took baby in for her 48k service today.. Got a call from Mr K to say the shims really need doing as its getting close to that time.. Rather than waiting another 1k I decided that it would be best to have them done.
I was feeling a little bored at home waiting for Mr K to call to say she was ready, so decided to have a ride back up there on the Z1000 they have lent me..
On arrival I was given the bad news.. I wouldn't be getting baby back today as they didn't have the size of shims in stock and have had to order some in.. That didn't seem to bad until they said that they will only be able to fit the smallest shims in & that in 25k miles time she may need a complete engine rebuild.. That will come in at a cost of around £2500. They also said I could be lucky and she wouldn't need it, but just be prepared incase she does.
Now I have a dilema. Do I keep baby and hope that nothing needs doing [considering i've done 17k in 18months], Not do the milage and be a grumpy, fair weather, polishing biker, or do I sell her sooner rather than later? Hmmmmm
Now if I had the money I would sell once the service is completed, but I dont..
Is this Bournemouth Kawasaki Debs?
Blimey, why on earth are they saying so far ahead that the engine may need a rebuild? I thought these engines were pretty bulletproof and had good longevity.
It would be interesting to know a bit more - I use them in preference to the shysters in Exeter but I honestly cant see how they can deliver a prognosis 25k ahead of time.
I do hope they are wrong for your purses sake !
Yes it is BK..
The shims have to be checked every 25/26k. They are only able to fit the smallest ones in so if they need changing again in 25k it means a rebuild as Kawasaki dont do any smaller. I asked what the problem could be or how its caused and they said they wouldn't know until the engine has been stripped down.. BK has always been good to me and had my best interests at heart.
They supplied the bike new to Neil (sirtou) and has always been serviced by them.
I think they are just being cautious and honest of what may need doing.. At least I am prepared
I guess they must know what they're talking about Debs, but it seems strange on such a big capacity engine. If it was puffing smoke, or running like a bag of nails I'm sure you would've noticed.
Maybe it'll be worth them doing a compression test on all the cylinders after the re-shim to see if one is down.
I'm no engine builder, but would've thought the smaller the shim the better, showing that there has been less wear on the top end???
I have no idea shaggs..
They said that when they checked the shims, they were at the end of their life and required changing. Something to do with the distance was at its minimum [whatever that means]
Im sure they will do everything that needs to be done..
Just been thinking. Could it be a fault to do with manufacturing? As I said until its been stripped they wont know what or how its been caused. :sad:
I too can't fully understand this prognosis Debs. The bike isn't used heavily, by that I mean it has average mileage for its age, and a good service record to support that fact
I would be stamping my feet with Mr Kawasaki
Debs
When they say the smallest, they mean the thinnest to keep valve clearances within specs.
If in another 25k the clearances have closed even more, then their will not be thinner shims available.
In the old days with shim adjustment, it was possible/allowable to grind a small amount from the valve stem, which made the clearance bigger and allowed the fitting of normal size shims.
I think you may find that once initial wear has taken place, then the clearances will settle down and will need checking at the next interval but will not need adjusting. Om my previous bike [Vstrom 1000] the clearances were adjusted at the first recommended interval and then never needed adjusting again. I rode the bike up to 86,000 miles with one valve adjustment.
Yes doebag.. Thinnest as you say..
Lets hope it will settle down and I wont need anything doing....
Baby has never missed a service and been done every 4k.. They even commented on my service book saying "you dont see many service records like this" :banana:
Debs Im very skeptical of their future diagnostic. I doubt very much if they have seen a GTR with that millage on. My blackbird had its shims checked for the first time at 60k and one needed adjusting and I ran that to 72k before I sold it.
:agree: Rob.. It dont do me any favours tho as Im a worrier and always look on the bad side of things instead of the positives..
I know I will now be worrying until I sell her or shes goes in for a 75k. I got 6 more services to go before I get to that point anyway.. :mfr_lol:
ive done a shim replacement , but on my zzr1200, i thought that as the engine wore, the shims needed to get bigger to replace the worn stem material. ????
honestly if it was me and as you clearly want to keep your bike, id just keep running it. IF these shims cant be replace in 25k miles or so, the bikes performance wont just fall off the cliff, it will be a gradual thing over many thousands of miles
if the shims need to be thinner then yes i can imagine one could take a small amount of material off the valve stem, if the shims need to be bigger then im sure you could have one fabricated, just in case you hve never seen a shim its a very small disc of metal the size of a small watch battery.
worst case senario, you could buy a replacement engine off ebay for under a grand and a competent mobile mechanic could fit it for you.
if performance or fuel consumption started to slip , you trade it in right ?
Thanks Viper,
The thought of an engine has already crossed my mind.. There is one on there for £1500..
When the time comes that will be one of the options to take...
Unless I win the lotto or Neil (sirtou) gives me his for free when he changes it then I will be keeping baby another 50k miles :yes:
Debs, as Viper says, it will be a very slow thing to happen. I bet you will never notice it. These engines have no stress placed on them.
Poor running and smoke out the back. You are a long way from that.
Debs, I think these people at you dealers are just putting the frighteners on you. An engine this big should be barely run in after so few miles, a few questions if I may, is the bike using any oil?, does it make any strange noises?, ie clattering, or knocking, has the engines character changed when you are riding along?, is it still smooth?, does it still pull really strong when you open the throttle?, does the bike start easily on the button?. if as I suspect your answers are No, No,No, Yes,Yes, Yes,then my advice would be forget about what the dealer is saying, even though you have a good relationship with them, there is simply no reason to scare the poo out of you. If I were in your situation I would just keep riding and enjoying the bike. In my experience if there is anything wrong with your bike, then the bike will find a way of telling you, and seeing as that has not happened, just get the bike back after the service and ride into the sunset and enjoy every minute. :banana: :banana: :banana: :smiley:
Yeh , and stop being a big girl
I agree.
Enjoy the bike, and If I win the lottery, I'll swap mine for yours and I'll sell it on. (again).
I'm sure it'll be fine. BK have been good to me as well and wouldn't let you down.
Neil
Technical answer..... skip if it's too boring..
The reason they need to put smaller shims in is usually because the extra thin valve stems they use now stretch slightly and close up the valve clearance gap so a smaller shim is needed to maintain the gap as doebag stated.
In the olden days when checking valve gaps it was normal to tighten gaps because of wear, but with the common place shim and buckets now the load is spread across a larger area, namely the camshaft lobs and the bucket face and wear is generally negligible now.
Must say though that I'm surprised at having to resort to the smallest shims already, unless the original manufacturing process hasn't allowed for a lot of adjustment.
That said... I wouldn't worry to much, you'll notice the problem eventually as the motor gets harder to start when it's warm, which is why the gaps are always checked on a cold engine- as the motor heats up the gaps tend to close a bit and the valves don't fully close reducing compression, but there should be plenty of carefree miles before that happens.
Long winded post but shouldn't be too worried about it Debs.
Al.
OK Rob :mfr_lol:
Thx ali. I googled 'shims' and now I know what they are.. :yes:
Baby has always run like a dream with no coughs, farts or smoke :mfr_lol: I am going to enjoy her and not worry. Just spoken to BK and she should be ready in an hour :banana: :banana:
Neil thats very kind of you but I would be looking to get a lower milage bike :yes: :mfr_lol:
Heres a link that I was reading.
http://www.redlinecycle.com/Valve%20Shims.html
I have now got baby back and she feels lovely.
BK are going to speak to Big Mr K about the shims. Thinnest shims at only 48k miles dont sound right.
BK said that they have not seen this in any other bikes.. Thankfully shes always been serviced by them so at least Big Mr K cant blame it on a Non K Dealer..
Watch this space for an update
That sounds more positive Debs, now go and replenish your glass.................glug glug..........ahh...... now you see its half 'full' :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
BTW I did say that your good service record would be valuable....didn't I :wink:
It would be intersting to know what thickness shims were fitted at the factory from new. As Al alluded to it, maybe the factory tolerances were on the tight side to start with, thus requiring mid range shims rather than full thickness ones.
UPDATE
After collecting baby last night I asked BK to get on to Big Mr K as there must be something wrong in manufacturing. They also asked me to fill out a customer survey on the Big Mr K website and at the end of the survey to mention the shims so they have also got the info from me [the customer].
This morning Big Mr K was on the phone to BK wanting to know what the problem was.
The mechanic had forgotten to mention to me that after the shims arrived in the post, before fitting them the distance was re measured. There was an [Anomaly] from the first reading so they were able to fit the normal sized shims.
I dont have any issues with the mechanic as anyone could have forgot to mention it, but very happy it was double checked. :yes:
The one thing I was impressed with was the quick response from Big Mr K wanting to know what the problem was.. :yes:
Now thats what I call service :banana:
That's fantastic, to be fair to K.U.K if they aren't kept informed of these matters, then they can't be expected to know about potential problems.
It's excellent that they made contact so promptly, I've always felt that they (K.U.K) aren't that bad when it comes to customer service, they may not get it right first time every time' but generally they are very good, especially when compared to some other marques.
Glad that was straightened out. Kwak engines will usually go over a 100k miles without issues.
2nd UPDATE :mfr_lol:
Big Mr K just rang me to see if I had any other problems :grin:
I asked about any new plans of a new style GTR next year. There are no plans of as yet that [they] know about but that will be down to the factory. Updates on bikes used to be done every 2 years, then it was 3, now every 4 years.. Also asked about new accessories. They are looking at the competition to see what they are putting on their bikes but its also down to price.. Some customers like a basic bike to keep the cost down and then fit what they want as and when.
Good result that Debs, as I stated before at 48 thousand an engine of that capacity will be barely run in, so it just did not add up. Any way, off you go over the horizon and enjoy a great bike. :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: I await news of the first person to do 2 hundred thousand miles on one of these engines, as I firmly beleive that they are well cabable of doing that kind of mileage :smiley: :smiley:
Quote from: 100milesaway on January 25, 2013, 11:44:34 AM
I await news of the first person to do 2 hundred thousand miles on one of these engines, as I firmly beleive that they are well cabable of doing that kind of mileage :smiley: :smiley:
Yes and especially on a motorway! :whistling:
I'm upto 96000 miles over 3 GTR's! and as I've just paid for new rotors, pads, fluid, tyres, and 50k service (at 43k), I'm well on my way!
Let the good times roll.
Neil
That sounds like good customer service from Mr K. :clap: :clap:
Quote from: Rusty on January 25, 2013, 02:48:05 PM
That sounds like good customer service from Mr K. :clap: :clap:
:stupid: :mfr_lol:
Excellent news Debs - please it all worked out nice in the end...