I just cannot comprehend what has happened in that Connecticut school, and my heart goes out to all those affected by the terrible loss, what in gods name is happening :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
My local radio station has just played a recording of a child who was at the school and heard events unfold over the school intercom.
I'm sitting here in tears
Real tragedy :cry:
But, statistically looking, number of people and number of guns available in the States it's just bad thing awaiting to happen. :no:
Again, and again, and again.
This time it's Primary School kids, much as we had with Dunblaine so the US will be more likely to make changes this time.
When guns are in free ownership, all it takes is one nutter and you have 20+ corpses.
Yes, there are plenty of sane gun owners out there, but the problem is that with that type of weapon you can kill an awful lot of people in a very short space of time, if yer that way inclined.
Last I heard they claim he fired off some 300 rounds and had at least that many left when he topped himself.
Most soldiers in combat don't carry anywhere near that many rounds.
This is sooo sad and my heart goes out to all those affected or lost someone... :cry:
Unfortunately this WILL happen again because of Americas stupid gun laws.
Shock on this scale never seems to make them realise that the 'Second Amendment to the United States Constitution' that allows them to keep & bear arms is way outdated.
Yes something needs to be done, but we know it wont. :no:
It seems that the answer over on US based forums is to arm the teachers. :shocked:
Quote from: Bryn on December 17, 2012, 04:32:48 PM
It seems that the answer over on US based forums is to arm the teachers. :shocked:
Typically American solution. :no:
Quote from: garfield1974 on December 17, 2012, 05:27:58 PM
Typically American solution. :no:
Because arming them will not infringe anyone's contitutional rights :whistling:. The only contitutional ammendement to have been repealed was the 18th [ prohibition act ]. Partly because the adminstration realised that more crime was being committed because of it, and it was effectively beyond policing/enforcing. I fear that the right to bear arms is so engraved in people's minds that any administration will fail to repeal the 2nd ammendement [ but it may well be altered to make ownership harder and with less radical weapons ] I mean who needs a full on assault rifle in their home FFS.
Quote from: Bryn on December 17, 2012, 04:32:48 PM
It seems that the answer over on US based forums is to arm the teachers. :shocked:
Aye, they never want to get rid of the guns. Absolutely sickening what has happened. Didn't the guns belong to a teacher anyway?
Quote from: Bryn on December 17, 2012, 04:32:48 PM
It seems that the answer over on US based forums is to arm the teachers. :shocked:
I guess that would reduce misbehaviour in the classroom,..... until one of the teachers decides to "go postal"
In general the US population seems quite happy to have their kids massacred by nutcases so long as they have the right to arm themselves.
Solution? I doubt there is one whilst so many of them insist on being capable of starting WW3 single handed.
As is often the case, even if guns were withdrawn, the criminal element tend to prefer to hang onto theirs.
Quote from: Lonewolf on December 18, 2012, 11:31:09 AM
As is often the case, even if guns were withdrawn, the criminal element tend to prefer to hang onto theirs.
So what? At least then you know that everybody carrying a gun must be a criminal and you can lock them up for good. :ohplease:
Quote from: Lonewolf on December 18, 2012, 11:31:09 AM
As is often the case, even if guns were withdrawn, the criminal element tend to prefer to hang onto theirs.
True enough, but they are rarely the type to go on a rampage through a school like these other nutters.
Michael Ryan had no record prior to his rampage and most of his guns were legal.
Likewise for Thomas Hamilton (Dunblaine) and Derrick Bird (Cumbria 2010).
Most of those that happen in the US seem to be disgruntled current or former students, normally those that struggled to fit in.
Again the guns are usually legally held.
In the cases of the gang morons, the non-gang deaths are normally accidental/collateral.
They aren't actually aiming at innocents like these other nutters are.
As to how we can detect nutters better, it's difficult.
If they seek treatment then they normally lose their firearms cert anyway but most of them never seek treatment before they "go postal".
Quote from: Boomer on December 18, 2012, 02:18:57 PM
True enough, but they are rarely the type to go on a rampage through a school like these other nutters.
Michael Ryan had no record prior to his rampage and most of his guns were legal.
Likewise for Thomas Hamilton (Dunblaine) and Derrick Bird (Cumbria 2010).
Most of those that happen in the US seem to be disgruntled current or former students, normally those that struggled to fit in.
Again the guns are usually legally held.
In the cases of the gang morons, the non-gang deaths are normally accidental/collateral.
They aren't actually aiming at innocents like these other nutters are.
As to how we can detect nutters better, it's difficult.
If they seek treatment then they normally lose their firearms cert anyway but most of them never seek treatment before they "go postal".
I've had very strong views about guns since I was a lad when I was taught how to handle, use and respect guns, I have carried that attitude with me to this day...... BTW I still own and use guns legally and safely.
George, your comments are absolutely, 100%, cast iron, correct..I honestly could not agree more
- why did he target a kindergarten ?
- soft target.
- why soft target ?
- he knew that there would be little to no resistance to him doing what he did. Look , he showed up and shot up the door to get in. Then he shot up little kids and their teachers. Big tough hero we have here. Then when he heard the sirens coming , he shot himself. What a coward.
- some will scoff at the idea that the answer to this problem is more guns (eg , the arming of teachers) , but the awful reality is that just one gun on those premises with one person trained to use that gun could have saved an awful lot of lives.
- and now the talk is about "assault weapon" and high capacity magazine bans. IIRC , Dunblane was carried out by one man with pistols. In Japan and China , the weapon of choice to kill kindergarten kids is a plain old knife. So , its not the tool thats the issue. Its how and where crazy people tend to operate.
- sandy hook was so god awful sad , that if you imagined yourself as a parent of one of those kids or a relative of the teachers there , i think the pain would just be beyond comprehension.
- we can only hope and pray that they are in a better place and happy without pain nor suffering.
.
Gun Sales Go Through the Roof
In the wake of the Newtown, Connecticut mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School that killed 20 children and six adults, one would think that buying guns would be the last thing on someone's mind. Unfortunately the opposite has occurred, and a spike in gun sales has swept the nation. As gun control issues dominate the national conversation, why do Americans feel a need to protect themselves? Buying firearms is not a solution to prevent such tragedies, and if anything will provide more opportunities for guns to get into the wrong hands.
This is not the first instance in which gun sales increased in the aftermath of a high-profile shooting. According to the Denver Post, background checks for firearms purchases increased by 41% in Colorado just days after the Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooting in July.
There are also other factors that contribute to the increase in national gun transactions. It is the height of the holiday season, as well as hunting season. Also, President Obama's recent reelection has played a role in the spike. Similarly, in 2008 gun sales soared when Obama was elected president. The FBI reported that during the week of November 3 they were requested to process over 374,000 background checks related to firearms purchases. It is apparent that gun advocates feared stricter gun control legislation during Obama's administration.
Sales in assault weapons like AR-15 rifles have increased as well. This type of rifle is the most popular in America, and is the same one used by the Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza. The AR-15 was also used by alleged Aurora shooter James Holmes in a killing spree that resulted in 12 deaths and 58 wounded. Needless to say it is alarming that people resort to buying weapons of this nature all in the name of "self-protection."
The increase in gun sales brings attention to a deeper issue. Why do Americans feel unsafe? According to CNN contributor David Frum, high profile shootings instill national fear:
"The more terrifyingly criminal the world looks, the more ineffective law enforcement seems, the more Americans demand the right to deadly weapons with which to defend themselves."
The spike in national gun sales is indicative of the naivete of many Americans, who feel justified in taking the law into their own hands courtesy of the Second Amendment. However, there is national law enforcement for a reason, and gun advocates need to be reminded that keeping a gun in their homes will not necessarily protect them from harm.
Adam Lanza used weapons that were purchased legally by his mother, Nancy Lanza. She followed all of the legal protocol and passed background checks. However, the Newtown tragedy is a valid example of guns getting into the wrong hands. Adam Lanza did not have a criminal record, and he faced no legal obstacles to procuring the weapons he used in the Sandy Hook shooting.
More guns wouldn't make us safer, but instead only increase their availability to future Adam Lanzas.
Quote from: pistole on December 18, 2012, 11:27:19 PM
- why did he target a kindergarten ?
They don't know but there are reports of an "altercation" the day before between an unknown male and 4 members of the school staff, 3 of whom were subsequently killed by Adam Lanza. The 4th was not in school that day.
Before leaving the house he also damaged a computer hard-drive.
They are working to retrieve some data from the hard-drive in the hopes that it may show up a motive.
His mother was a survivalist so who knows what happened to make him snap.
Yes, it contains a kindergarten, but the school is Sandy Hook Elementary School, that caters for Kindergarten to 4th grade. (ages 5-10 so equivalent to our Primary Schools)
It's really really sad. Full Stop.
The NRA response is truly shocking. More guns? WTF.
I still don't understand this 'right' to own a gun. It must be a paranoid society that requires guns to protect its members from one another. Hardly the functions of a democratic society.
The NRA has a membership of 3 million ... Yet there are 311 million people living in USA .... Surely this is Americas chance to stand together and do something ! If Obama misses the chance now it ain't ever going to change !