Kawasaki 1400 GTR

1400 GTR - All Models => 1400GTR Discussion => Topic started by: Sharpy on October 07, 2012, 07:03:41 PM

Title: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 07, 2012, 07:03:41 PM
Hi guys,
Been out for a potter on the bike and have the following problem:
When coming to a roundabout (or something that requires a measured approach) I ease off the gas and hold the throttle just open. The bike revs are in the 3,000 range and slowly falling as I approach. Every time I do this the bike lurches forward as the revs suddenly drop to about 2,000 and then lurches back as the revs shoot back up to 3,000. This all happens with no accelerator input from myself. I find this particularly frustrating when trying to maintain a steady 30 mph which equates to about 3,000.
I have to pull the clutch, drop the revs and then come back up which seems to reduce the problem.
This problem is more exaggerated in economy mode but still there in normal.
It is not comfortable at all and makes me sound as though I'm opening and closing the throttle every second.
Any ideas what could be causing this?
As I have said in another thread the bike is 2010 with 2500 miles and fully serviced.
Hope someone can shed some light on the above as I will have to take the bike back to the dealers (bought Saturday 6th October) and would like to be able to communicate with some prior knowledge of what the problem is and what needs to be done.
Kind regards,
Sharpy 
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 07, 2012, 07:24:47 PM
mmm , thats a tough one to diagnose, my bike does not do that , and from the way you describe it , maybe its fuel management/ecu/ settings ect . does nor sound anything basic like a sticky throttle. Best get one of the dealers mechanics to test ride it for you.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: kfshman on October 07, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
Have your dealer check the throttle position sensor .. It can cause similar problem
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Rusty on October 07, 2012, 07:42:40 PM
Not heard of that before but would imagine it is fuel delivery / sensor related ... back to the dealer and let them sort it ... :wink:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 07, 2012, 08:06:02 PM
Cheers guys,
Will give them a bell tomorrow.
It's a pain the  :asshole: as the dealer is about 70 miles away from me.
I'll keep you updated with what they suggest. Either way it's gonna cause me hassle and a wasted day.
Sharpy
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Lonewolf on October 07, 2012, 08:06:29 PM
Do you have any means to contact the previous keeper, perhaps ask them if it was evident when they had the bike. Its always possible the dealer has interfered with something un-intentionally while perhaps prepping the GTR. Long shot but worth looking into.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 07, 2012, 09:04:53 PM
Not a bad idea but I don't have any contact details to hand.
It can't have done many miles since the last service, maybe they tweaked something?
It does feel like a fuel issue and the suggestion that the ecu or mapping is out makes sense to me.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 07, 2012, 09:08:46 PM
new bikes have all sorts of sensors, lamber, o2 readers ecu settings , christ knows what else, can the gtr be hooked up to a diagnostic code reader like modern cars ?
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Ros on October 07, 2012, 09:12:12 PM
Quotecan the gtr be hooked up to a diagnostic code reader like modern cars ?

Yes it can.  Although every time Mine has been hooked up to The Computer, it never spat out any decent or useful information...  I alwas asked them to look at the FI error, but they can never find any trace of it in the error log.

Maybe this will be diffrerent.

Hope you get it sorted out - sounds a bit dicey to me...
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: O.C. on October 08, 2012, 08:00:31 AM
TBH, I've not heard of that one before

My first reaction was that its something to do with the fuel and/or fuel mapping ~ possibly air feed and mixture, as its sounds a bit like an over-run issue

Best let the dealer sort it
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 09, 2012, 07:08:24 PM
Well took the beast back to the dealer this morning.
Their technician took it out for a test ride whilst I waited hoping the problem would show up for him.
I didn't want him coming back saying it was okay and therefore an intermittent problem.
He came back and said "well that ain't right, it's dangerous" - first hurdle. Out of the way.
He hooked the bike up to the diagnostic thingymabob and got a fault code for the rear wheel speed sensor.
One of the guys who worked at the shop had a GTR1400 so they whipped his sensor out and put it in mine..
Hey presto.......problem still there!
They are now scratching their heads about it as Kawasaki Technical advice were "out all day" and could not be contacted.
I've had to leave the bike with them and wait for an update.
I agree with the general comments above that the issue is likely to be fuel/air/mapping/ecu.
The dealer gave me my old Z1000 to use whilst they fix mine.
I'll update when I get a firm answer as to the problem and the solution.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 09, 2012, 07:27:09 PM
the bike must have been traded in with this problem, maybe thats why the owner let it go, which dealer did last service ? , contact them to see if they had tried to solve this one , V interesting , please keep us all updated .
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Rusty on October 09, 2012, 09:31:03 PM
Well at least the dealer has recognised the problem and seems to be cracking on with it ... let us know of any updates  :smiley:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Lonewolf on October 10, 2012, 12:44:45 AM
Sharpy I take it you've had the GTR since Saturday 6th October. You don't want to be lumbered with a lemon, give them a week to fix it or bin it and get one from elsewhere. You can't be expected to be travelling 70 miles each way to get them to look at issues with the bike.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Deon on October 10, 2012, 05:47:27 AM
Quote from: Lonewolf on October 10, 2012, 12:44:45 AM
Sharpy I take it you've had the GTR since Saturday 6th October. You don't want to be lumbered with a lemon, give them a week to fix it or bin it and get one from elsewhere. You can't be expected to be travelling 70 miles each way to get them to look at issues with the bike.

Fully agree !!!   :yes:   Not fit for purpose.

Deon
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: O.C. on October 10, 2012, 06:52:47 AM
Quote from: Deon on October 10, 2012, 05:47:27 AM
Fully agree !!!   :yes:   Not fit for purpose.

Deon

:agree:  good idea
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: kfshman on October 10, 2012, 07:03:02 AM
I know a person who had similar problem it took the dealer a long time to discover the problem and at the end it was the throttle position sensor. the code is no. 11, have them check it
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: O.C. on October 10, 2012, 09:35:22 AM
Quote from: kfshman on October 10, 2012, 07:03:02 AM
I know a person who had similar problem it took the dealer a long time to discover the problem and at the end it was the throttle position sensor. the code is no. 11, have them check it

now there's an idea and deffo worth a try, nice one kfshman  :clap:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: pistole on October 10, 2012, 09:58:08 AM
These are the Self-Diagnosis Service Code Reading codes for the 08-09 Concours 14:

11 -  Main throttle sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

12 -  Inlet air pressure sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

13 -  Inlet air temperature sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

14 -  Water temperature sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

15 -  Atmospheric pressure sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

21 -  Crankshaft sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

23 -  Camshaft position sensor (EX) malfunction, wiring open or short

24 -  Speed sensor malfunction

25 -  Gear position switch malfunction, wiring open or short

26 -  Camshaft position sensor (IN) malfunction, wiring open or short

31 -  Vehicle-down sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

32 -  Subthrottle sensor malfunction, wiring open or short

33 -  Oxygen sensor #1 inactivation, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)

37 -  Steering lock unit communication error

38 -  FI ECU communication error

39 -  The 2010 manual lists error code 39 -  as a KIPASS ECU communication error.

46 -  Fuel pump relay malfunction, relay is stuck

51 -  Stick coil #1 malfunction, wiring open or short

52 -  Stick coil #2 malfunction, wiring open or short

53 -  Stick coil #3 malfunction, wiring open or short

54 -  Stick coil #4 malfunction, wiring open or short

56 -  Radiator fan relay malfunction, wiring open or short

59 -  Valve timing abnormal

62 -  Subthrottle valve actuator malfunction, wiring open or short

64 -  Air switching valve malfunction, wiring open or short

65 -  Oil control valve solenoid malfunction, wiring open or short

67 -  Oxygen sensor heater malfunction, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)

68 -  Steering lock unit malfunction, wiring open

83 -  Oxygen sensor #2 inactivation, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)

87 -  Steering lock unit identify authentication Error

88 -  FI ECU identify authentication Error





How to access codes

-First have the key off.
-Push and turn the key knob (stove knob key) to on.
-Push the upper and lower buttons for more than two seconds. Self diagnostic mode starts.
-The service code(s) are displayed on the dash (LCD).
-Turn the stove knob key off.
.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Rusty on October 10, 2012, 11:30:58 AM
This place is a mine of information :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Barry7 on October 10, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Wow!  Thanks Pistole that is fantastic info, I will be printing this off and keeping nice and safe for future info.

Any more gems like this, more than welcome.........
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 10, 2012, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: Deon on October 10, 2012, 05:47:27 AM
Fully agree !!!   :yes:   Not fit for purpose.

Deon

good advice, tell them to collect the bike , repair and deliver back to you in 5 days or give you a refund
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 11, 2012, 03:37:45 PM
Crumbs!
Haven't been on the forum for a few days and looks like members are as riled as I am by this.
Haven't heard anything from the dealer yet and will have to phone for an update in a bit.
Must say that I'm not too impressed so far.
When I took the bike back the owner/manager who did the deal didn't even acknowledge me when he walked past me in the shop a number of times. He knew the problem I'd had and that I'd had to take time off work etc to get the bike back.
I had to bite my tongue as I just wanted them to get on and fix it with no side issues to cloud the matter.
Believe me I'm not used to biting my tongue and I would have rather liked to have a very frank discussion.
Will update when I know more.
Thanks for all your interest and advice!
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 11, 2012, 04:55:05 PM
Just made a quick call to the dealers who were, spookily enough, just about to call me.
The update is that there is no update. The problem is still there and they have tried swopping parts out from another GTR to see if that solves the problem with no joy.
Not getting a good feeling about this as the guy said once they found the problem they would contact Kawasaki to see what they could do to help. The bike is out of warranty by the manufacturer but is covered by a 3 month dealership warranty.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 11, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
probably why such a low milage bike was traded in, id encourage the dealer to update you via email , just so you have proof if anything goes pear shaped. as i said before , give them a time limit before you get a refund
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Lonewolf on October 12, 2012, 01:02:47 AM
Reject it now, don't be disheartened by this experience, you have just been VERY unfortunate. Bin it and get another from elsewhere. 
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: pistole on October 12, 2012, 01:50:34 AM
- since they're at the "swapping to see" state , what they might want to try is to swap out the entire throttle body with their other gtr (alot of work , this).

- on the gtr , there are the primary throttle plates operated by cable from the grip , and also a duplicate set of secondary throttle plates operated by servo by the bike's ecu.

- any failure of these parts may cause the lurching at small throttle openings.

- if its an injector fault or a fault with the TPS , the swapping of the TB will also show it up.

- good luck.

.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Deon on October 12, 2012, 05:48:14 AM
Quote from: Lonewolf on October 12, 2012, 01:02:47 AM
Reject it now, don't be disheartened by this experience, you have just been VERY unfortunate. Bin it and get another from elsewhere. 

:agree: Do it now !!!!!!

Deon
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: O.C. on October 12, 2012, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Deon on October 12, 2012, 05:48:14 AM
:agree: Do it now !!!!!!

Deon

That would be my advice also....don't throw 'good money after bad' as they say
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 13, 2012, 08:35:09 AM
Got a phone call yesterday to say that the bike is fixed  :clap:
Turned out to be the throttle sensor. I'll get a full update when I pick it up this morning.
Mechanic has taken it out a few times since identifying the problem and it has not happened since.
Just hope the weather holds as I plan to take the long route home.
Was starting to think about asking for my money back but if the problem is solved I'm more than happy to keep the bike and get on with putting some miles on it!

Thanks for all your interest and advice: very much appreciated.

I wonder if the owner/manager will acknowledged / speak today...... I suspect his customer service skills will continue to be  :shit:
I guess I just have to accept that I was so lucky that he let me buy the bike from him. :nono:
The guys in the shop have turned out to be great with an interest to resolve  the problem.
I'll post later with an update on how the bike went on the way home.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: kfshman on October 13, 2012, 08:48:42 AM
Quote from: kfshman on October 07, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
Have your dealer check the throttle position sensor .. It can cause similar problem
That was my first respond to your problem
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: kfshman on October 13, 2012, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: kfshman on October 10, 2012, 07:03:02 AM
I know a person who had similar problem it took the dealer a long time to discover the problem and at the end it was the throttle position sensor. the code is no. 11, have them check it
and that was my second response  :clap:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 13, 2012, 09:14:43 AM
Kfshman

You were all over it mate!
Good call.
Fingers crossed its now fixed.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: O.C. on October 13, 2012, 10:04:03 AM
That's a good result Sharpy, I'm sure you will have a great ride home with a BIG grin on your face  :clap:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Ros on October 13, 2012, 11:02:02 AM
Best to keep the visor closed when riding your GTR... Stops the flies sticking to your teeth when you're grinning ear to ear
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: kfshman on October 13, 2012, 11:05:04 AM
flies are high in protein .. that's good for health ..  :mfr_lol:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 13, 2012, 11:08:07 AM
great result and yet more learning for us all  :clap:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Sharpy on October 13, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
 :banana: :banana: :banana:
Bike all good. No longer like riding a bucking bronco.
Once again ; thanks for all your input, advice and help.
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: 100milesaway on October 13, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
Good result that Sharpy, so glad you went down the understanding and sensible route, rather than the one suggested by some on here of  :gun_bandana: :gunsmilie: :hammer: :2guns: :death: :hang: :taz: :fuk2: In life I have always found that it's nice to be nice, and try and see things from someone elses perspective. All you have to do now is enjoy the bike, and I'm certain that you will. :banana: :smiley:
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Kwikasfuki on October 13, 2012, 08:39:57 PM
Good news that. Enjoy the ride
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: viper on October 13, 2012, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: 100milesaway link=topic= #msg30384 date=1350153032
Good result that Sharpy, so glad you went down the understanding and sensible route, rather than the one suggested by some on here of  :gun_bandana: :gunsmilie: :hammer: :2guns: :death: :hang: :taz: :fuk2: In life I have always found that it's nice to be nice, and try and see things from someone elses perspective. All you have to do now is enjoy the bike, and I'm certain that you will. :banana: :smiley:

this weeks spot prize goes to 100 miles for the best use of multiple smileys  :clap:

just noticed that "aaw 100 smiley " is an anagram of your name
Title: Re: What's Causing This?
Post by: Lonewolf on October 16, 2012, 11:13:04 AM
Sharpy, congratulations on getting it fixed. Now go enjoy your new steed.
:biker3: