i park my 2 bike's in a brick/block built garage,it has a concrete floor & a tin roof,i pulled the xjr1300 out last saturday to take it out for a run & it was absolutely soaked with condensation,is there any cure for this,would a indoor bike cover help,i would get a humidifier only there's no power there.any suggestion's appreiciatted.
a cover for the bike will make no difference , the damp rises up from the concrete floor ( probably no membrane under it ) and condenses under the tin roof, if water is dripping from the roof a cover will help but water will also condense on the metal parts of the bike under the cover.
Air flow is your only helper, fresh air in and old air our via a vent axia fan ( no power), a dehumidifier would help, but I have to say that the room will eat your bike and there is no real answer short of insulating the walls and roof and floor,
you could get an air bubble bag, giant bag that you park your bike inside , but need power for the small fan that vents the bag
move the bike before it resembles the titanic
Viper's post is very good and 99% accurate, but the water is actually coming from gaps and external air. (think about how much moisture you breath out as a human). Set concrete is waterproof - think of the concrete barges of 1940's etc.
a dehumidifier would run permanently unless you can seal the gaps, which is unlikely in that sort of garage.
the visible condensation (ie water on the underside of roof), is acutally caused by differential air temperature and tin roofs are the worst, (similar to poorly ventilated houses where you see the damp on the glass).
no power is a slight problem, as I would have suggested background heating and better cross-ventilation. perhaps a solar powered extract fan would be an option, it only needs to trickle vent. But you also need to make sure that the opposite wall has some ventilation.
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/200809946129?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla
Hope this helps.
Neil
Yes you need to do something soon, or you will have 2 rusting hulks on your hands. Has a friend/neighbour got any space to let you use?, failing that is there any space behind the sofa? :rolleyes:.
Quote from: SirToU on September 11, 2012, 07:22:08 PM
Viper's post is very good and 99% accurate, but the water is actually coming from gaps and external air. (think about how much moisture you breath out as a human). Set concrete is waterproof - think of the concrete barges of 1940's etc.
a dehumidifier would run permanently unless you can seal the gaps, which is unlikely in that sort of garage.
the visible condensation (ie water on the underside of roof), is acutally caused by differential air temperature and tin roofs are the worst, (similar to poorly ventilated houses where you see the damp on the glass).
no power is a slight problem, as I would have suggested background heating and better cross-ventilation. perhaps a solar powered extract fan would be an option, it only needs to trickle vent. But you also need to make sure that the opposite wall has some ventilation.
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/200809946129?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla
Hope this helps.
Neil
cheer's sir ToU (NEIL) that look's like a good bit of advice,it aint going to break the bank.well worth a try.
i disagree about set concrete being waterproof, my guys lay floors in my business and unless a concrete floor has been sealed or a membrane fitted the damp rises up and blows the tiles or the damp blows the wooden floor, we have to seal these floors first . Try putting a piece of plastic on your garage floor tapps and after a few day lift it up, there will probably be moisture underneath. when you see concrete house/ wall construction abroad, ever noticed the blown bits of concrete with rusty rebar poking through, the water got into the concrete, rusted the metal , which expanded and then blew the concrete out.
tapps, if it were my garage, Id seal the floor, ( paint or membrane ) insulate the roof, and get some air flow going, even a static air vent, if the gaps in the side walls were not letting in any moisture rain id not worry about these too much as they help air flow. This subject is within my proffession so im fairly confident about my advice.
just found this
One cubic metre of normal, good quality dry concrete will absorb the equivalent of roughly 60 litres of water in just 30 minutes! (Test in accordance with BS 1881, part 122).
http://www.waterproof-concrete.co.uk/
When we had our garden redone with decorative concrete, they cut a gap into the concrete at intervals to let it breathe. I remember our cellar having a similar problem and we had to get a membrane put down.
when sir tou said waterproof he may mean that a concrete bucket would hold water without it flowing out, however the concrete would get wet and the moisture would evap out of the concrete, the concrete barges he mentions were lined with tar or pitch internally .
AIR FLOW IS ESSENTIAL :yes:
I had a simular problem some years ago in the Rev Shed where my classic bikes were becoming condensed, due to lack of moving air
Here's another idea I explored at the time
http://www.carcoon.co.uk/
BTW the Rev shed is now fully insulated and air flows through 24/7 and there no longer a problem I do keep a de-humidifier on hand just in case, as rusty bikes are especially expensive to repair
I'm currently in the process of buying a old Georgian house and damp is one of the questions we had.
The surveyors report was full of damp coursing everything. We got several quotes and were about to proceed until I happened to mention it to my neighbour.
He was horrified. He had a read of the report, went over and inspected himself and said there was nothing wrong. Old properties are meant to breathe. Damp proofing can make them worse apparently.
I got in touch with some builders that specialise in period homes and they confirmed as well.
This is what happens if concrete pointing is used on period homes.
(http://www.1stassociated.co.uk/article_images/Copy%20of%20building-regulations_clip_image020.jpg)
Ok, whatever.
The last post about buildings breathing is the absolutely correct answer! I completely agree with this and sealing things will cause more problems. The government has gone down a route of sealing elements because its the cheapest route to meeting their Carbon requirements! Doesn't necessarily mean its correct. All products move (differential movements, temperature, humidity, etc, etc.), They all create gaps as they move throughout the year with ambient temperature.
Ventilation is the answer to the problem, by whatever means!
Insulating unheated spaces - why? where is the benefit? Just additional cost! Save the money and spend it on the bike! :-)
Neil Wallis-Tennant BA Hons Architecture.
ps. the correct terminology where you are starting to see reinforcement, is spalling. This also happens in brickwork and other masonry - basically as water penetrates the surface, cold weather freezes that water, as the water changes state from gas, to liquid to solid - it expands. it's this expansion of the water that breaks away the surface of the material. exposing concrete reinforcement.
Also, just reading back through your post - if your tiling, or laying timber on the floor - I totally agree you need to do something with it, but thats for a different purpose.
As far as I'm aware, we're talking about a garage here, with a concrete floor - no tiliing, no junkers or cheap B&Q timber floor, just plain old concrete and not on Jay Leno's budget!
just another 2p worth!
Thanks for that Neil. Very handy to know.
I've come to the conclusion that the £500 I paid for a full buildings survey was a waste of money
In my ignorance I reckon a tin/metal shed on a concrete floor will be a different proposition to a Georgian house.. but hey wadda I know :mfr_lol:
Quote from: olde coney on September 12, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
In my ignorance I reckon a tin/metal shed on a concrete floor will be a different proposition to a Georgian house.. but hey wadda I know :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol:
Principle is the same though. Still needs to breathe (I think!)
It doesn't matter whether its a £150k house (where do you find one of those these days) or a £10mil house, although you would expect less problems - unless its a CAS-tle (with a nothern accent). The surveys CAN be worth their money, but you have to understand what your reading.
Generally speaking, very bespoke or mass produced houses will be ok, where you have to start paying attention, and I think you will see a lot of this over the next few years - is extensions and conversions. When "developer" houses are designed and built, they are designed and built to a budget, they are not designed with the thought of "this person wants to add an extension here or there". so this is where things inevitably start going wrong - in some manner - structurally or aesthetically.
Caveat emptor = Buyer Beware! its in law for a very good reason!
ok I'll get of my soap box now! :-)
Neil
insulating your tin roof , even tho its an unheated room will stabilise temps and reduce condensation, tin roof will get red hot in the summer and ice cold iin the winter, the insulation will even out this dramatic temp difference.
We had a tin roof inside our pool pump room that contunually had condensation on it, we insulated the roof it and the room is now dry
Quote from: SirToU on September 12, 2012, 06:49:06 PM
It doesn't matter whether its a £150k house (where do you find one of those these days)
Bradford (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?searchType=SALE&locationIdentifier=REGION%5E198&insId=1&radius=0.0&displayPropertyType=&minBedrooms=&maxBedrooms=&minPrice=&maxPrice=150000&retirement=&partBuyPartRent=&maxDaysSinceAdded=&_includeSSTC=on&sortByPriceDescending=&primaryDisplayPropertyType=&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldDisplayPropertyType=&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=&newHome=&auction=false)
:whistling:
and here :wacko:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23327538.html
Quote from: olde coney on September 13, 2012, 08:03:40 AM
and here :wacko:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23327538.html
It's a different world for those with money
Tapps .. a bit late to this thread but I would suggest, as others have done so, ....
YOU MUST GET AN ELECTRICIAN IN AND GET POWER INTO YOUR GARAGE OTHERWISE THE REST IS POINTLESS ...THEN ... go to Wickes and buy some garage floor paint .... clean garage and paint floor .. do it very soon whilst there is still some warmth in the air ... so .. floor sealed and dry ... then attend to the roof with some insulation and fill those gaps .. won't cost you much ....... then buy a dehumidifier from B+Q or off the net .... and switch it on .. I have no idea if they are expensive to run but mine is on 24/7 from about October to March and it is quite simply brilliant at keeping the garage dry which in turn leaves me with a non rusty Gtr ........
As Manuel from Fawlty Towers woud say "I Know Nothing" :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: Rusty on September 13, 2012, 10:30:15 AM
Tapps .. a bit late to this thread but I would suggest, as others have done so, ....
YOU MUST GET AN ELECTRICIAN IN AND GET POWER INTO YOUR GARAGE OTHERWISE THE REST IS POINTLESS ...THEN ... go to Wickes and buy some garage floor paint .... clean garage and paint floor .. do it very soon whilst there is still some warmth in the air ... so .. floor sealed and dry ... then attend to the roof with some insulation and fill those gaps .. won't cost you much ....... then buy a dehumidifier from B+Q or off the net .... and switch it on .. I have no idea if they are expensive to run but mine is on 24/7 from about October to March and it is quite simply brilliant at keeping the garage dry which in turn leaves me with a non rusty Gtr ........
yup, that pretty much nails it