http://news.sky.com/story/980193/farm-shooting-pair-had-been-burgled-before
I'm hoping that the Law sides with this couple, and not with the scum that tried to rob them....
as far as I'm concerned if you break into my house expect to be treated with extreme prejudice... I will use whatever is to hand to protect me and mine... (that's assuming I haven't shot you with the crossbow already :gunsmilie: )
This is always going to be a healthy debate ... Mogs ... 90% of the public agree with you and these 2 farmers but the law has been unchanged for many years and any action that a person takes against an intruder has to be both justifiable and proportionate ... ie ... you can't shoot unarmed intruders as they run away but you can defend yourself if he is actually attacking you with a weapon ... Section 3 of The Criminal Law Act 1967 states ......
" A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime or in the effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large "
And that is what the Detectives and The CPS will be looking at when deciding what if any charges are brought against the farmers.
In reality if there was no confrontation the shooter will be charged with Sec 18 .. GBH with intent ... the offenders will be charged with Aggravated Burglary ... there will be a massive public outcry .... the politicians will say " We are listening to the public and we will look into the legislation " .. meanwhile ... everyone ends up with a custodial sentence, some of it may be suspended, and the poor old burglars that have been shot will, at public expense, sue the farmers for injuries caused ........ another sorry chapter in the fight against crime.
I am no copper, but others on here may have more detailed knowledge.
The law allows reasonable force for self defence, whether a shotgun [ legally held or not] is reasonable force I personally doubt.
Local farmer [ to me ] Tony Martin was convicted of murder in similar circumstances for using an illegally held shotgun on robbers who, it was proved, were not an immediate risk to him. Despite the fact they had records as long as your arm and had travelled many miles to case the place and perform the robbery.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/apr/20/tonymartin.ukcrime2
shoot um!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,narrrr,cut they balls off first,,,,,,,,then shoot um,,, :clap: :clap:
Quote from: jenros on September 06, 2012, 12:38:52 AM
shoot um!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,narrrr,cut they balls off first,,,,,,,,then shoot um,,, :clap: :clap:
doubt Judge ":shit: head" Peter Bowers would agree with your punishment :nono: after all you need "a huge amount of courage" to take something off someone who has worked for what they have. here's a thought..! wonder if peter "how the hell he became a judge" bowers would be in the same mind if some scroat broke into his house in the middle of the night and help themselves to what ever they wanted then used his car to "have it away"
Well ..a bit of an update ... just back from work and scouring over The Daily Torygraph .... the judge in question is to be investigated over his remarks and the farm shooters are NOT to be prosecuted ... I am amazed ... full stop ... I think it's a good decision don't get me wrong but in the past that decision would have taken weeks if not months while the file was batted about form one office to another AND the offenders have been remanded into custody ... great stuff ... goes to show how much the political landscape has changed in the last few years. Thumbs up from me ! :smiley: :smiley:
I want to get myself a shotgun, I wouldn't worry about using it, about £300 for the gun £150 for the licence and what ever you want to spend on ammo, I think a president has been set now. As long as you don't shoot them in the back and do try and take either their hands or feet off, I can't see a problem.
I have reported a lot of burglary's in my time and one of the striking features of them is they raid your knife draw to start with and place blades all around your house so if they get challenged they have a ready blade to hand, and I can tell you if I was challenged in my house by some knife wielding thug I would have no hesitation in popping his leg off below the knee. And then Id make sure there fingerprints where on every single knife in my house, even if I had to get them out my knife draw myself and put them in his hand before calling the old bill and ambulance.
Doing the job I do, on occasion, disgusts me at the way we treat people.
TS ... I havn't reported a burglary for a LONG time .... :laugh: :laugh: ..... but you are quite right about this worrying trend of leaving knives around the house .... it only adds to the weight of using "proportionate and justifiable" force against them if and when you have a dust up .... which of course is good for the house owner !
If you need to defend yourself or your property, and pull out a gun / knife / other weapon, expect to receive the offendor's maximum efforts very quickly. If he has a gun / knife etc. he will be most likely to use it once he / she see's that you are armed.
Best to avoid confrontation for safety reasons, because if you fail, then you and yours will be more likely to be in danger.
For burglary etc. you should have insurance etc, so safety is primary concern.
Having said that, I have had some martial arts training, so depending on the situation, I may have a go, but without arming myself.
Incidentally, if someone comes at you, in general, and they have a knife, they will probably use it rather than their hands, feet etc. you have 2 hands and 2 feet that you can use, so technically an advantage because they will feel compelled to use whatever they're holding and not their other hands, feet etc.
Anyway........ Moving on
I have no doubt that unless I was onto a "complete loser" of a situation I would have a go ... just the very thought of someone in MY house trying to steal MY things makes my blood boil ... and that in a tight situation would fill you with plenty of Adrenelin !!
I remember the Tony Martin incident very well, despite being but a child at the time :whistling: . I thought then and I still think the same now, if someone wants to come into your property uninvited and nick something they get what they deserve if it doesn't go their way. :gunsmilie:
If someone comes on my property and tries to steal anything then they have waived their rights to be treated decent.. :gunsmilie:
I am happy to go to prison to make sure the scum never do it again.. They certainly wouldnt be walking or have any fingers once I had finished with them... :death:
Nice touch Debs. :laugh:
Quote from: Rusty on September 10, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
Nice touch Debs. :laugh:
She's a lady you know! You cant beat the feminine touch. :mfr_lol:
Well, it looks like you can certainly hit them with a hammer....
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/09/10/billingham-burglar-jailed-after-being-hit-with-hammer-in-stockton-flat-84229-31803709/ (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2012/09/10/billingham-burglar-jailed-after-being-hit-with-hammer-in-stockton-flat-84229-31803709/)
Mr McGirr told jurors: "I didn't want it to escalate any further. I made him aware if I wanted to hurt him I could already have done.
"I was very careful not to go over the top. That's why he's only dazed and not dead"
:mfr_lol:
- this thread is sad.
- its an indication of the depths our societies have deemed it appropriate to sink to.
- a thief's "rights" will trump those of the person for whom he is stealing from.
- one would have thought that if you ventured into another person's property with an intention to permanently deprive someone of their property (or maybe even worse) , you have just ceded all rights to being treated like a decent member of a law abiding society. Apparently , no. Before shooting you, I have to ask whether you've just had your tea , what your blood type is and where it would be convenient for you to be shot.
- there was a time when they said that "an armed society is a polite society" , simply because you didn't get off lightly for being rude and acting poorly. Ie , your behaviour had consequences.
- anyhow ... a shotgun is a good choice for home defence. Low risk of a round penetrating walls , etc , and a very high accuracy rate in distances which typically occur in a dwelling (eg , under 10/20 feet). Just choose your shells carefully for what you want to do to the fellow.
.
Quote from: pistole on September 11, 2012, 09:41:40 PM
- this thread is sad.
.
- anyhow ... a shotgun is a good choice for home defence. Low risk of a round penetrating walls , etc , and a very high accuracy rate in distances which typically occur in a dwelling (eg , under 10/20 feet). Just choose your shells carefully for what you want to do to the fellow.
.
I have a couple of those, but they have to be kept in a very secure cabinet, not propped behind the kitchen door with a couple of cartridges up the spouts just in case an 'unwanted' visiter calls
QuoteI have a couple of those, but they have to be kept in a very secure cabinet, not propped behind the kitchen door with a couple of cartridges up the spouts just in case an 'unwanted' visiter calls
So you basically have to try and buy some time to remember where you put the keys, or what the combination is, remove any safety lock, pull it out, find the ammo, load it up, and take aim before you get hurt...
Might as well just go up to your unwanted visitor holding your :censored:...
"He picked up a hammer, which he had by his bed" Only in the North East! :banana:
On page two though of the news article even his defence solicitor seemed impressed by the victims actions.
Quote from: Rosbif on September 12, 2012, 11:20:23 AM
So you basically have to try and buy some time to remember where you put the keys, or what the combination is, remove any safety lock, pull it out, find the ammo, load it up, and take aim before you get hurt...
Might as well just go up to your unwanted visitor holding your :censored:...
Absolutely correct :yes:
I believe in Texas USA you have an automatic right to shoot any one found on your property as a matter of course if you believe they are committing a felony ..... I read this from an article that was sent to me from a local paper ... a chap was awoken by 2 burglars in his garage in the dead of night and before they could both get out he had shot and killed one of them as they fled ... no offences disclosed on the part of the house owner !
This law was passed some years ago and Texas, strangely enough, has a very low Burglary Rate !! :laugh: :laugh:
- castle doctrine
.
Believe they have a similar law in SA. No doubt Deon can confirm that (or not!)