Can anyone help? Yesterday I had a long trip away and the bike was running perfectly but after about 200 miles I did wind it up a bit and around 5000 RPM it was if I had run out of fuel, the bike was cruising nicely but when I pushed it a bit harder it juddered and jerked as if it was running out of fuel, drop the revs keep to motorway speed lovely.
I then went through the gears at high revs about 5000 Rpm and same thing.
Someone told me to try a different fuel as I might have a problem from that, but it seemed unlikely to me. Not long had the bike serviced and as I say it runs perfectly smoothly a lovely ride until I up the anti a bit.
Hi Rippers,
Check fuel cap vent? If it is blocked it will create a vacuum which will only show itself when putting higher loads (needing more fuel), similarly if the fuel pipe to the injectors has become kinked/trapped (after tank has been removed/replaced at a recent service?). Check air filter is not blocked(once again if serviced properly this should have been replaced or blown clear?)
I am sure others with a greater knowledge of this bike and symptoms will also be along with more answers
regards Coman
Hi Colman
Really appreciate the feedback thanks
Best Wishes
Rippers
just changing to better fuel does not fix a problem like that.
id run some sort of fuel cleaner / tank addative through your system first
Cheers Viper
I thought that might be the case. I think it must be something like air filter or fuel problem in the line. I will check all of these.
The Blocked cap vent idea sounds plausible to me :yes:
The latest is today I got the bike out and started it on my drive. Went into get changed and came out to start it and nothing. Red warning light flashing and KIPASS just turned around and around. Went to try to re set it and still nothing but very faint sound from horn and very weak indicator flash, battery appears to be discharged. This must be connected to the issues I had over the weekend. I am arranging to get the bike into the dealers, but broke from the service routine recently and had it done by an independent garage.
Anyone any diagnostic ideas with my latest symptoms.
Check your battery connections. Easy to do.
Right fairing. Remove one bolt holding cover.
Metal plate secured with four bolts. Remove.
There's a belt that hold battery in place. Remove.
You may also have to remove a silver bracket.
Slide battery out, tighten.
The earth is also connected to the frame
Tried that and nothing.
Sounds like the battery has had a weld fail.
The battery will be suffering from low voltage due to high resistance across the busted weld which can cause the power loss you describe, due to low voltage at the coils which leads to weak spark. This in turn makes for crap emissions and the O2 sensor detects this and tries to adjust the fuelling accordingly.
Replace with a new battery and see if it happens again.
Hi Boomer
I appreciate your telling me about this. I am not too good mechanically. Can I just check with my limited knowledge. Would this kick in when the engine is running i.e. the intermitent power and symptoms like i was going to run out of petrol? As I just assumed when running the battery would be redundant as the alternator would be taking the power.
I am going to get a new battery and try this out, but would be interested in expanding my knowledge on this. Certainly the battery seems to be flat and yet when I took it out the garage this morning it fired up perfectly, but I did rev it up to 6000 RPM before switching off to get kitted up, then on my return nothing.
Sounds spot on.
It's either a busted weld in the battery (a heavy discharge test should show that) or else a problem elsewhere in the chargeing circuit.
When you start the bike the battery is cold so the break in the weld may have closed up.
Once it's been running for a minute or 2 the battery warm up, the break opens up, the voltage drops, the alternator loses some of it's smoothing (the battery) and the voltage variations can make all kinds of wierd things happen with the ignition, ECM, KiPass, and most other electronic/CanBus units.
I had this on a GTR1000 with a Yuasa battery.
It would start but about 2 miles down the road would lose power, start to misfire and eventually would stop.
Give it 15 mins to cool down and it started up fine.
The 1000 doesn't have the electronics of the 1400 but does have an electronic igniter (CDI).
Replaced the battery with a new AGM one and no further problems.
Hi Boomer
Have bought new Lucas Battery this morning it is now on trickle charge as it came uncharged with acid etc seperate.
I will let you know how I get on.
Thankyou
Rippers
Hi Boomer
You are a bloody genius. Had the new battery on trickle charge for 6 hours and the bike has just come back on line and started up. I will not be able to get a ride to test it for another 48hrs due to commitments, but it is looking good.
As far as this site is concerned this has saved me a load of inconvenience and probably diagnostic money. I would never have dreamt a flat battery would A) have affected the running as I described (Still need to confirm that when I get the bike out)
B) That it would just pack up like that.
Anyway I am now very much in your debt. Thanks.
Quote from: rippers on July 24, 2012, 06:33:39 PM
Hi Boomer
You are a bloody genius. Had the new battery on trickle charge for 6 hours and the bike has just come back on line and started up. I will not be able to get a ride to test it for another 48hrs due to commitments, but it is looking good.
As far as this site is concerned this has saved me a load of inconvenience and probably diagnostic money. I would never have dreamt a flat battery would A) have affected the running as I described (Still need to confirm that when I get the bike out)
B) That it would just pack up like that.
Anyway I am now very much in your debt. Thanks.
Boomers bill will be in the post Rippers :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Yep, Consultants fees cost a fortune. If I am ever in his presence though, I will touch my forelock and buy him a beer or two.
nice one :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol:
I have always been of the opinion that what goes around, comes around.
Or if yer of a religious/farming bent "what ye sow, so shall ye reap".
Over the years I've had a lot of help from all kinds of people, so passing the favour on is a pleasure.
Fingers crossed that the ride goes well.
Boomer
I will let you know this weekend. But bike starting up and all computer read outs ok
This type of fault is exactly what happens on the 1300 Pan, battery starts to go and you get all sort of weird electrical problems, meters playing up misfires and then death. New battery sorts them out.
Seems to be an affliction of new bikes with loads of electronic trickery. :no:
Bike working, and running great UNTIL!! Same problem at high speed in top gear at about 5000 revs. OOOH!!!
Will now start looking at filters etc.
Could still be electrics.
If the Rectifier/Regulator has died it will be outputting AC which will mess with the electronics.
Put a multimeter across +12v and ground (frame) and check the DC voltages at various rpm (up to 6,000).
Then change the multimeter to AC voltage and do the same.
DC should stay below 14.5 volts and AC should be below 1volt.
If it does go over these at higher rpm then the rectifier/regulator has died, which would explain what killed the old battery.
Quote from: Boomer on July 23, 2012, 04:55:59 PM
Sounds like the battery has had a weld fail.
The battery will be suffering from low voltage due to high resistance across the busted weld which can cause the power loss you describe, due to low voltage at the coils which leads to weak spark. This in turn makes for crap emissions and the O2 sensor detects this and tries to adjust the fuelling accordingly.
Replace with a new battery and see if it happens again.
Boomers,s da man :cool: :cool: :cool:
Quote from: Boomer on July 27, 2012, 11:28:07 AM
Could still be electrics. If the Rectifier/Regulator has died it will be outputting AC which will mess with the electronics. Put a multimeter across +12v and ground (frame) and check the DC voltages
- thats why i like the voltmeter function on the GTR.
- very comforting on long rides.
.
Latest saga. I have been out on the bike today over Cat and Fiddle and down the motorway, where I did push the revs up, and now it is perfect. I can only think the engine memory system remembered the first problem and it has taken some time before it has re set itself, Certainly it now seems fine at high revs. Just hope I do not come back on with the same problem.
Thanks to all of you for your help and Boomer.
I have to say this site is really useful for information and help when something is not right with the great GTR 1400
Yup, sounds like our GTR has a "limp home mode" in the ECU.
When the voltage drops it triggers an alarm which pushes the ECU into "limp home mode".
Sometimes these can take a little while to clear.
Glad it's back to normal full on BANZAI mode! :banana:
Hi rippers, I had a similar problem to this on an 08 vfr800. No problems with a fully charged battery, but as the bike was used it started to do the same thing on a long run...... Funnily enough it was when I was going an a 400 mile round trip to look for my gtr! I found the problem to be the regulator/rectifier failing only after it got hot. I hope your problem is sorted mate, but if it does return its something to bear in mind.
Hi Shaggs
Thanks for this I will keep it in mind. I am off to Belgium in September so do not want this happening again. At the moment the battery is holding its charge and all seems well. But strangely enough this did happen after a long ride from Cheshire to Cotswolds and my return, then the following day it started fine then nothing. I have fitted the new battery and all seems well. I really gave it some stick last Saturday but did only about 50 to 60 miles and all seemed fine.
Nice one Rippers, hope its all ok.
When I checked the alternator output on the Vfr it was something around the 14v mark I think when it was ticking over from cold. I took the bike for a long run, and then checked the output again. I think it was holding at roughly the same voltage for a little while, but as the temperature started to climb the alternator voltage dropped off like a stone. It was nothing to do with the fans cutting in, it was just the rectifier breaking down with heat. It can be an awkward fault to find as the battery will hide the problem if you only do short trips, especially if you then put the bike on a trickle charge when you park it up. On a longer trip the battery is gradually being discharged due to the regulator not being able to keep up, and when it falls below its critical voltage the bike's electrics will start to go haywire.
Hope that helps mate.