You may recall the saga of my 2010 GTR which trashed front discs in 20k miles.
After many e-mails Kawasaki are maintaining this is normal wear and tear. They acknowledge a change in pad material in 2010, but claim thay do not know what the difference is.
I cannot accept that this is normal wear and will be contacting various bike press.
If any of you have 2010 or later models, I suggest you check the discs and any problems should be sent to Simon Chitty in customer services. E-mail below
[email protected]I am extremely unhappy and will be investigating aftermarket discs for the future.
Tom
Thanks for the update Tom. I still find it hard to believe that discs could wear after 20k. I think I use my front brake 99% of the time under heavy braking and my discs were fine until they suffered the dreaded warp issue.
I wouldn't bother spending the £700 Kawasaki want for the replacement discs and pad. You can get EBC for £370 or you could get the Chinese branded discs for £150 + pads. I bet the Chinese ones are just as good, if not better, than the Kawasaki OEM.
Tom, sorry to hear this. Seriously though its times and issues like this that we as a 'group' can possibly help each other out.
Kawasaki are probably claiming that they haven't had many complaints re this, or you are the only person etc that has raised this as an issue, typical bull shit when manufacturers etc dont want to be held responsible for fitting a part which is clearly not fit for its intended purpose.
Here's what we need to do, everybody on here with a 2010 onwards GTR needs to email that link you have posted and politely advise Kawasaki via Simon Chitty that there is potentially an issue with the discs, what harm can it do? Strength in numbers etc.
I will gladly do it if you wish. PM me if you wish to do so with a summary of discussions or copies of your correspondence and I will submit something along almost identical lines. They cant argue with the facts if they get many almost identical complaints can they?
good point, hows about someone puts together a kinda template that we can use... seeing as there are some us who have english as their second language .......Drunkanese being my first lol :wacko:
I think that contacting Kawasaki as a group is probably a good idea, however I also think its important to substantiate our contacts with evidence of problems, as, to me just contacting them and saying "we know there is a potential problem" doesn't really cut the mustard, they will need fact in support of such claims.
I would have hoped/thought that Kawasaki U.K would monitor this and other related forums related to the GTR in an effort to keep abreast of running/maintenance issues.
I do agree that having to change discs at 20k miles does seem to be an indication of poor disc material maybe coupled with harsh pad material, dont forget also that the front and rear brakes are linked, wether that has any bearing on this issue or not, i really don't know.
I will be monitoring the disc thickness on my GTR and watching with interest.
Never, ever had any problems with other marques machines, particularly Honda. A 50k Blackbird and 37k Pan both ran on original discs and were never even worn never mind warped. GTR - 2 x sets in 20k??!! :ohplease:
As a 2010 owner with disks worn below the 4.5mm limit (mine are at 4.39mm now) at 24,000 miles, I can sympathise Tom. My second set of brake pads is almost worn out too.
I have called my dealer, and as expected, got the fair wear and tear reply.
Like Tom, I am very disappointed but I do not expect Kawasaki to change their mind. To me, they have fitted cheaper pads to the 2010 on model that wear much faster than the previous year's part. All to save £20 a bike up front. They can legally (though not morally if you ask me) argue that this is wear and tear, you must be hard on brakes sir.
Tom, I applaud you for challenging it with Kawasaki but myself, I shall be buying aftermarket disks/pads and chalking it up to experience.
Martin.
Quote from: Lonewolf on April 17, 2012, 11:28:48 AM
Tom, sorry to hear this. Seriously though its times and issues like this that we as a 'group' can possibly help each other out.
Kawasaki are probably claiming that they haven't had many complaints re this, or you are the only person etc that has raised this as an issue, typical bull shit when manufacturers etc dont want to be held responsible for fitting a part which is clearly not fit for its intended purpose.
Here's what we need to do, everybody on here with a 2010 onwards GTR needs to email that link you have posted and politely advise Kawasaki via Simon Chitty that there is potentially an issue with the discs, what harm can it do? Strength in numbers etc.
I will gladly do it if you wish. PM me if you wish to do so with a summary of discussions or copies of your correspondence and I will submit something along almost identical lines. They cant argue with the facts if they get many almost identical complaints can they?
But why should you, or I complain about something that we have not had a problem with?. I feel really sorry for Tom, and agree that there is no way that his bike should do its discs in at 20,000 miles, BUT the rest of us ganging up on Kawasaki is in my opinion not the right way to address the problem. I have had no problems at all with my bike, and would not want the manufacturer thinking that there is a widespread problem with a certain issue, when in truth there may not be. Tom has a problem and by the sound of it Kawasaki are not being very sympathetic, and I wish him well in resolving the problem. But I dont think the rest of us squaring up to Kawasaki, when we have not had a problem is going to help the situation.
Even though its their flagship tourer, my personal opinion is Kawasaki are cutting costs. I have been disappointed with a few things, namely the disc warping, quality of bearings (replaced twice now) and the flimsy wind shield bracket.
All manufactures have issues. Sometimes it would be nice if common sense prevailed, especially with discs wearing at 20k.
Still love the bike though.
Geoff, apologies if I have been misunderstood. I wasnt suggesting we should gang up on anyone, just in an organised way and collectively for those that this concerns to address the matter as a group rather than a single voice.
Thanks for all your support.
I was suggesting mob rule in complaining to Kawasaki, but if any other riders have the same problem, it is vital they let Mr Chitty know.
I will not let this drop and will keep you updated.
They admit a change of pad material, but claim to not know what the difference is.
Tom
Quote from: vfrtom on April 18, 2012, 12:20:56 PM
Thanks for all your support.
I was suggesting mob rule in complaining to Kawasaki, but if any other riders have the same problem, it is vital they let Mr Chitty know.
I will not let this drop and will keep you updated.
They admit a change of pad material, but claim to not know what the difference is.
Tom
It's interesting that Kawasaki make the claim about not knowing what the new pad material difference is.
Perhaps then, they could make enquiries as to 'why' the material was changed
Have 2011-12 models got different discs?
Quote from: Andy on April 18, 2012, 05:51:28 PM
Have 2011-12 models got different discs?
Nope. '10 model onwards
Both the discs and pads were changed. The discs due to the warping issue. Don't know why the pad compound was changed
Quote from: vfrtom on April 17, 2012, 10:22:09 AM
You may recall the saga of my 2010 GTR which trashed front discs in 20k miles.
After many e-mails Kawasaki are maintaining this is normal wear and tear. They acknowledge a change in pad material in 2010, but claim thay do not know what the difference is.
I cannot accept that this is normal wear and will be contacting various bike press.
If any of you have 2010 or later models, I suggest you check the discs and any problems should be sent to Simon Chitty in customer services. E-mail below
[email protected]
I am extremely unhappy and will be investigating aftermarket discs for the future.
Tom
My discs wore out (officially) at 24K. I had problems with them at the 16K service but nothing was done at that point (which I regard as suspect). At my big 24K service my pads were replaced. At 26K I was in Protyre in Bristol and the tyre fitter there told my my discs were knackered, as were the pads. So, either the discs became knackered AFTER the 24K service OR new pads were put on to work with shagged discs (which then subsequently shagged the pads in less than 2k miles) and Kawacrappy then tell me its fair wear and tear.
This is absolute horse sh*t. The are not using quality discs in the first place and they are refusing to acknowledge it. This was my third warranty claim on the bike (exhaust paint, seized rear shock and then the discs). My concern is what's next? All I can say is I never EVER had a problem with my Fireblades or the Gixxers I had over the last six years or so. My previous Kawasaki (a ZX9R some years ago) had chocolate discs (8k miles!!!) on it and after a scrap with Kawasaki were replaced under warranty. Oh and WD40 removed the paint from my wheels as well.... :mfr_lol:
I love this bike, it has been the best bike ever for chewing up the miles, but I am not sure if I will buy another given the quality issues and now Big K messing me about.
I will not be purchasing an additional warranty and will now be getting the bike serviced at Morpheus motorcycles in Bristol 100% of the time and sod the remaining warranty (September this year). If anyone wants the photos of the discs and pads destroyed after less than 2k miles let me know and I will email them to you
VFR1200 looks tasty and Honda build quality and reliability (in my opinion) is the dogs.....
I do wonder whether we should be looking at car type milage on our discs, we want good handling , easier to turn, light and CHEAP! bikes. which means there is going to have to be some sort of compromise somewhere.
If you want all the goodies that seem to be the norm nowadays you are going to have to get used to paying much more for ya bikes, traction control, ABS, heated this and that, master control computers on the dash, etc ect...
Years ago, when i had hair, there were none of these things bikes were cheap and brakes disc were the thickness of manhole covers... oh and disc brakes didn't work...
Short answer is tbh, if you are unhappy with the GTR and the cost of running it, buy a Car....
Modern motorcycling is not cheap, sevicing costs are increasing as dealers both good and crap struggle with all the technology that our bikes have now....
Yes i do agree that sometimes parts are expensive, dispraportionaly so... for example, the discs went on my Tuono after 12,000 mikes, they cost £70 each to replace (aprilia ones) but I also realise that if i am going to ride the thing hard i have to expect to pay for it.
I am bloody amazed at the bikes I own, i've been riding since i was 16 and marvel at the advances in technology, kit ect. yes i agree sometimes suppliers and dealers get it wrong, but usually if you work with them they will put things right. Go through the channels, get Trading standards involved.... but understand, they arn't there to stich you up and if you feel that way... sell the GTR and buy a sumit else.
But to be sure, i think you'll find the grass isn't as green as it looks.
Quote from: Mogster on April 19, 2012, 01:21:38 PM
I do wonder whether we should be looking at car type milage on our discs, we want good handling , easier to turn, light and CHEAP! bikes. which means there is going to have to be some sort of compromise somewhere.
If you want all the goodies that seem to be the norm nowadays you are going to have to get used to paying much more for ya bikes, traction control, ABS, heated this and that, master control computers on the dash, etc ect...
Years ago, when i had hair, there were none of these things bikes were cheap and brakes disc were the thickness of manhole covers... oh and disc brakes didn't work...
Short answer is tbh, if you are unhappy with the GTR and the cost of running it, buy a Car....
Modern motorcycling is not cheap, sevicing costs are increasing as dealers both good and crap struggle with all the technology that our bikes have now....
Yes i do agree that sometimes parts are expensive, dispraportionaly so... for example, the discs went on my Tuono after 12,000 mikes, they cost £70 each to replace (aprilia ones) but I also realise that if i am going to ride the thing hard i have to expect to pay for it.
I am bloody amazed at the bikes I own, i've been riding since i was 16 and marvel at the advances in technology, kit ect. yes i agree sometimes suppliers and dealers get it wrong, but usually if you work with them they will put things right. Go through the channels, get Trading standards involved.... but understand, they arn't there to stich you up and if you feel that way... sell the GTR and buy a sumit else.
But to be sure, i think you'll find the grass isn't as green as it looks.
+1
running our gtr cost more to run than our merc.
The other thing to factor in when buying tyres and discs and pads is that the production runs on such consumable is so much smaller than that of cars , so there is no economy of scale, especially with tyres, less people making them, less people selling into a smaller market = higher prices.
Quote from: Mogster on April 19, 2012, 01:21:38 PM
But to be sure, i think you'll find the grass isn't as green as it looks.
Amen. That's why I'm sticking with the GTR
Edit: However, I do think on a marquee product skimping on costs isn't always the best idea. Accountants I tell ya ...
I don't think that Kawi skimped on products, but there is every chance that their brake disc supplier did.
I really must get round to checking the width of my front discs this weekend.
There is no lip on them, inside or outside and the bike stops as good as it always has.
I don't expect car like longevity from tyres, brakes, clutches or wheel bearings, but a disc lasting 20k miles is pathetic.
Jeez, my OEM front pads lasted 24k miles.
Wheel bearings should last at least 50k miles as well, not the disappointing 20-25k we get on the front wheel.
Looks like I have drawn a blank with Big K
They acknowledge the pads were changed due to the introduction of ABS across the range. They still maintain they do not know what the difference is and that 20k is fair wear and tear.
I will now be contacting avrious mags and TV programmes to stir it up a bit.
Not optimistic, but who knows.
On the basis I get no-where, can anyone recommend aftermarket discs for the next change.
Happy to pay K prices, but would expect much better wear rates
Tom
:gunsmilie:
I have the EBC ones on. Still early days but very good so far.
There's some cheaper Chinese ones that are available. I read on the USA forums that these are also very good. I would have gone for them had I been paying for them
I did 60K on the FJR with the original discs. :laugh:
I've done 8K on the GTR and the dealer is replacing the discs because they are warped. :shocked: I didn't even have to ask them, they noticed in the service, so kudos to Bristol Kawasaki.
Ive done 40,000 miles on a blackbird and 28000 on a busa bothon original discs, they were never an issue. Something is not right!!!
Hi
My discs were changed at 8k allso. Brill bike shame about the poor quality discs that Kawasaki fit.
All the bikes I have had previously, VFRs and Blackbirdds, all did 70-80K and never had the discs changed. What does that tell you.
:huh:
I am still convinced it is the pads, rather than the discs.
I don't think anyone on the 2008/9 bikes has the same issue, and from what I can see on the Cornwall Kawasaki parts fiche, only the pads changed between the 08/9 bikes and the 2010 onwards. Discs are the same part number, and price.
Not that this helps us 2010 owners with worn discs.
Martin.
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on April 24, 2012, 09:53:35 PM
I am still convinced it is the pads, rather than the discs.
I don't think anyone on the 2008/9 bikes has the same issue, and from what I can see on the Cornwall Kawasaki parts fiche, only the pads changed between the 08/9 bikes and the 2010 onwards. Discs are the same part number, and price.
Not that this helps us 2010 owners with worn discs.
Martin.
The Cornwall Kawasaki parts fiche shows only the reference number, not the actual part number. Been caught out with that several times! The Kawasaki site now has a much better parts fiche.
The 08/09 bikes had the following part for the disc 41080-0102-5C (https://www.kawasakiepc.com/SystemSearch_Frames.cfm?QuickSearch=1&SearchFor=ZG1400A8F&SearchBy=Model&cGroupID=&CFID=6495792&CFTOKEN=99759392).
2010 onwards have the following part for the disc 41080-0570-5C (https://www.kawasakiepc.com/SystemSearch_Frames.cfm?QuickSearch=1&SearchFor=ZG1400CCF&SearchBy=Model&cGroupID=&CFID=6495792&CFTOKEN=99759392).
(You need to click on Front Brake to link to the actual part)
I believe the difference is due to the warping issue (that's what I was told when mine were replaced under warranty).
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on April 24, 2012, 10:55:51 PM
The Cornwall Kawasaki parts fiche shows only the reference number, not the actual part number. Been caught out with that several times! The Kawasaki site now has a much better parts fiche.
The 08/09 bikes had the following part for the disc 41080-0102-5C (https://www.kawasakiepc.com/SystemSearch_Frames.cfm?QuickSearch=1&SearchFor=ZG1400A8F&SearchBy=Model&cGroupID=&CFID=6495792&CFTOKEN=99759392).
2010 onwards have the following part for the disc 41080-0570-5C (https://www.kawasakiepc.com/SystemSearch_Frames.cfm?QuickSearch=1&SearchFor=ZG1400CCF&SearchBy=Model&cGroupID=&CFID=6495792&CFTOKEN=99759392).
(You need to click on Front Brake to link to the actual part)
I believe the difference is due to the warping issue (that's what I was told when mine were replaced under warranty).
Excellent investigation, thanks Asif.
Still leads me to think pads though. Neither vfrtom nor I have suffered warped discs, but both of us have had the discs wear below their minimum limit in around 20k miles. Assuming the 2010 disc is an improved part vs. 2008/9 to combat warping, and also assuming there are no pre 2010 bikes wearing discs so quickly, I can only surmise pads.
Lots of assumption there, lots of areas where I could be wrong, but I personally won't be using the OEM 2010 pads any more. I am tempted to use the OEM 2008/9 ones though.
Martin.
I've used both types of pads and TBH I couldn't really notice a difference.
What do I need to measure the discs? I'll see how much mine have worn
A pair of these will do the job nicely.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/callipers.png)
Or perhaps these would be easier to get in.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/list_AK9771.jpg)
Ahh, Vernier calipers. Takes me back.
A tip with the Verniers, use two small shims on either side of the disc, and measure across these. This will avoid measuring the disc edge lip (if any). Just remember to subtract the shims after :rolleyes:
May be Kawasaki should investigate this disc problem, this subject has had over 500 hits on it so we cant all be wrong.
H
As I said previously, I will not let this drop. I have been dealing with Simon Chitty in Customer Relations in K UK.
Any suggestions as to who to go to next. K Europe?
Tom
My brake discs were changed at 8k even though the bike was out of warranty and had been serviced by my self.
I live in France and I had to contact Kawasaki France who agreed there was a problem and the new discs were modifyed,this might exsplain the fact when they ordered the discs from the dealership they went back ordered.(about 6 weeks to get them).When the bike was 1st tested by the Kawasaki garage there responce was they all do that sir!. I hate being told there is nothing wrong when I had to traveled 70k for diagnosis, at this point I insisted that they phone Kawasaki and the rest is history.
As I have been in the motor trade all my life I think Kawasaki should be recalling all the relavent bikes and replacing the discs even if they are out of warranty
I would exspect to make a contrubution to the repair if my bike hade done more than 25 to 30k.
H
Quote from: Lonewolf on April 25, 2012, 02:16:50 PM
A pair of these will do the job nicely.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/callipers.png)
Or perhaps these would be easier to get in.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/list_AK9771.jpg)
What you actually need is one of these. Measure at several places around the disc.
(http://www.technologystudent.com/images3/microm1.gif)
New discs fitted under warranty at 12K service.
They also noticed the front wheel bearings were knackered and replaced those too. I thought the handling was becoming a little lively at speed.
It would seem that the seals on the bearings are not particularly good, so if you ride all-weather, get the dealer to check them out.
Kudos again to Bristol Kawasaki for noticing and replacing stuff immediately with no hassle for me.
Just had my dealer tell me my disks are warped at 4k miles and will replace them, whats the cure once and for all with regards to this issue?
Great bike apart form this problem.
Alan
Quote from: BigAlan on April 30, 2012, 02:37:46 PM
Just had my dealer tell me my disks are warped at 4k miles and will replace them, whats the cure once and for all with regards to this issue?
Great bike apart form this problem.
Alan
The warping issue was supposed to have been fixed on the '11 model. Allegedly.
Quote from: 1ka on April 30, 2012, 02:29:01 PM
New discs fitted under warranty at 12K service.
They also noticed the front wheel bearings were knackered and replaced those too. I thought the handling was becoming a little lively at speed.
It would seem that the seals on the bearings are not particularly good, so if you ride all-weather, get the dealer to check them out.
Kudos again to Bristol Kawasaki for noticing and replacing stuff immediately with no hassle for me.
Also not surpised to hear about the bearings.
Long shot, but is bearing wear linked to disc warping (clutching at straws here)
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on April 30, 2012, 03:33:13 PM
The warping issue was supposed to have been fixed on the '11 model. Allegedly.
Mine's a late '11 model, so I guess not :undecided:
Sorry, that should be fixed on the '10 models onwards
now that's interesting.... just called to book the bike in and for vibration problem and a slight 'clunking' when braking at under 30mph,,,, which is a tad wierd,,, anyone else got that btw.... and the dealers Lloyd cooper, came back with a 'nono couldn't possibly be discs... nope not a chance'...
I can almost see him reading the memo from Kawasaki ..... Hmmm the thick plottens..
Tis in on wednesday so i'll up date then...
Oh tis a 2011 model with 5k on the clock... sound familiar :whistling:
The vibration issue and the brake "clonking" when braking is exactly the same as my bike yesterday and it is warped disks, and being replaced by Mr K under warranty.
Alan
14 months old and 13000 miles I don't have any vibration, the discs are fine the top box is still there .... :innocent: :innocent: