Has anyone experienced this, and if so has the application of sintered pads made any difference ?
Mines just started squealing. Need to check my pads, but had new tyres 400 miles ago and a full service about 700 so should be OK
Have you tried applying something like Wurths brake cleaner, it gets rid of excess brake dust off the discs and cleans them up nicely. Works well on the callipers and pistons too.
Use it all the time (well every couple of weeks!)
It could be the dirt at the pins. I would do what is suggested above as well as removing pads and copper grease behind them.
Same with the pins.
You can do all the above without removing calipers. Undo pin, remove spring object, this then allows the pads to be removed from rear. Grease and replace.
i have brake squeel on every bike ive had and the gtr developed a bad case of it 500 miles in.
I took the pads out and got a can of brake cleaner squirted right in there and gave everything a good blasting out, dont do this on your garage floor as it makes a hell of a mess. Years ago one could buy rubber pads that stuck to the back of your pads that absorbed the squeel, these days people use copper grease on the reverse , being careful not to get it on the pads themselves.
Ive not had the problem since.
For those who dont know, the squeel is the noise thats emitted when the pads and or pins viabrate at a high frequency due to loose particles such as brake dust. even newly fitted pads will do this if the previous crud has not been fully cleansed .
I have never experienced brake squeal; good old Brembo's. So many exciting new things to look forward to, brake discs, wheel bearings (centre stand problems did I read?) Short service intervals. Still, as already mentioned, no short lived clutch or gear box issues (that's what I am used to. :biker3: :mfr_lol: Can't wait!!! :yes: :yes:
(of course I mght just be going deaf and ride too well insulated; Balaclava and ear plugs or even, more likely, the wind noise was just too high. :mfr_lol:)
I do look forward to comparing notes.....Don't you :nono: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: olde coney on April 09, 2012, 06:13:55 PM
Has anyone experienced this, and if so has the application of sintered pads made any difference ?
I squeal every time I apply my brakes !!!!!!!! (sometimes I emit a little bit of fluid too)
Coman
I am with Winny and Mr Wolf for this ... every 2/3 weeks give em a good spray with some of this ....
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n531/NigelCooper/photo-28.jpg) Works wonders, no squealing, just decent brakes :smiley: :smiley:
I will be checking them over during the next week, thanks for the constructive opinions/advice
BTW Viper, my Rev Shed floor is already a bloody mess, although it does get a lick of paint every now and then :mfr_lol:
Quote from: coman37 on April 09, 2012, 09:07:25 PM
I squeal every time I apply my brakes !!!!!!!! (sometimes I emit a little bit of fluid too)
Coman
:mfr_lol:
As said above, brake squeal is high frequency harmonic vibration. Copper grease on the back of the pads is the cure. Modern car brake pads are starting to come with an adhesive vibration damper on the rear nowadays, but not seen it on bike pads as yet.
Cleaning so regularly with brake cleaner will bring the squeal on faster, as it will 'wash' away the grease. I strongly recommend the stuff for cleaning, but only when you change pads, or are prepared to remove the pads and reapply grease to the reverse. Maybe every 4k miles or so.
Martin.
Martin, main reason for regular cleansing is the result of two sets of ruined discs - I still blame the build up of dust etc clogging the bobbins.
Not had an issue since I started cleaning more regularly. May have to get the coppa-slip out though if it's getting washed off with the brake cleaner
Quote from: Winston Smith on April 09, 2012, 10:02:46 PM
Martin, main reason for regular cleansing is the result of two sets of ruined discs - I still blame the build up of dust etc clogging the bobbins.
Not had an issue since I started cleaning more regularly. May have to get the coppa-slip out though if it's getting washed off with the brake cleaner
I have to say I am struggling to know what to believe regarding the disc warping. My discs have only lasted a rather shocking 22,000 miles, but they are worn down below the 4.5mm limit rather than warping.
I have been getting some relatively minor pulsing in the brakes in the last couple of thousand miles, but I am leaning toward pads getting stuck in the caliper rather than the floating bobbins on the disk myself - http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,1487.0.html .
Martin.
Had the current (third set) fitted at 19k under warranty. Pulsing was the issue. Sort of came and went, but then came and stayed!
Pretty convinced it was initiallly a build up of crud but after some heat cycles and the floating not being able to the heat warped the discs.
Not had anything similar since cleaning them.
13000 miles on the clock after last nights ride home and not a warp or squeak ... I think I clean the bike too much for any build up of crud to have an effect :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
:mfr_lol: You can never clean the GTR too much!
I'm starting to pick up (not the fastest whippet in the trap) that GTR is quite a high maintenance, sensitive lady requiring a close eye/ear and lots of TLC.
Now I understand the lament "Anyone would think that you are married to that bike"
And the truth of it :mfr_lol:
Quote from: Rusty on April 10, 2012, 10:18:21 AM
13000 miles on the clock after last nights ride home and not a warp or squeak ... I think I clean the bike too much for any build up of crud to have an effect :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
You sound like a man of my own heart, there is nobody on the planet cleans bikes more thoroughly than me. I cannot abide a dirty bike, mine is washed, dried, and polished after every single ride. I did mine yesterday after it came back really filthy from a 270 mile partly wet day on Sunday, and spent 4 hours making it look mint again. Mines only done 7500 miles ,but no warp or squeaks here either. :smiley:
Quote from: Winston Smith on April 09, 2012, 10:02:46 PM
Martin, main reason for regular cleansing is the result of two sets of ruined discs - I still blame the build up of dust etc clogging the bobbins.
Not had an issue since I started cleaning more regularly. May have to get the coppa-slip out though if it's getting washed off with the brake cleaner
I've used Wynns brake & clutch cleaner for a long time and found it to be superb.
However it does say that nit will remove dust, grime, oil and grease from components, so it would be a sensible thing to replace any brake realetd lubricant/copper slip grease after cleaning with this type of product. [/b]
Hi guys
As I had my discs and pads replaced at 8k under warranty with mod brake discs ect,I can only presume this is a weak spot of the bike. I consider it unacceptable that we should have to spray our discs and pads with cleaner/ grease our pads at 3/4 k.
I have had over 10 bikes and most of them from new and they all had 20k+ on them when i sold them and not one of them had any brake problems.
I really rate the kawaski 1400gtr,so would I buy enother one, yes I would.
Why do my car pads last at least 40k and have never heard a noise, maybe Audi just make better brake than Kawaski(which would not be hard).
H
I don't know which company manufactures the Kawasaki discs, but even the earlier after market EBC discs had issues with warping (fixed in the new version). Don't know why the GTR is susceptible to it.
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on April 11, 2012, 09:53:39 AM
I don't know which company manufactures the Kawasaki discs, but even the earlier after market EBC discs had issues with warping (fixed in the new version). Don't know why the GTR is susceptible to it.
Lightweight discs, (manufactured to a cost) and a heavy weight bike could be the answer :huh:
Quote from: olde coney on April 11, 2012, 06:12:51 PM
Lightweight discs, (manufactured to a cost) and a heavy weight bike could be the answer :huh:
Another answer is riding style, mucho acceleration followed by heaving on the brakes, will give discs and pads a hard time. Maybe riders with a smoother riding style dont have the same problem. Just a thought :smiley:
Geoff - I have been through two sets and I am NOT a heavy braker.
But like me you are a heavy rider :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Quote from: olde coney on April 12, 2012, 07:53:58 AM
But like me you are a heavy rider :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Two-Hat!
if i ever need replacement discs im going to get the cheap chinese ones off ebay, Arashi brand i think approx £130 pair.
I ran these for several thousand miles on my zzr1200 and had no issues at all. The stainless steel content was better than stock as they never had rust spots when unused and they never warped. I wrote quite a few reviews about these on another forum. I think a metalologist member over there did a analysis of them and found them to be better spec than stock
Your stock discs probably originated from china anyway.
4k miles in
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/DSCF0018.jpg)
I did see the Chinese brand but wasn't too sure. Thanks for the heads up.
The GTR discs may well have been manufactured in China, so much of everything else is these days
With Discs being such a safety related item I would have to go with O.E.M replacements.... if needed
What would your insurers opinion be about non approved discs I wonder
Quote from: olde coney on April 13, 2012, 07:02:55 AM
The GTR discs may well have been manufactured in China, so much of everything else is these days
With Discs being such a safety related item I would have to go with O.E.M replacements.... if needed
What would your insurers opinion be about non approved discs I wonder
Untill the dreaded 'Type aproval' comes in you should be OK to fit what you like, as long as you can demonstrate that everything has been well maintained and in good working order... :banana:
Hopefully I won't need to change 'em....not for a while at least Mogs
Interesting stuff Mr Viper ... you are right I am sure ... most stuff originates from China, the price difference is only incurred when it's packed in this country ! :smiley:
cant you tell ive been off today with all these posts :rolleyes:, been productive tho and now have finished my post tour clean and maintenance of the gtr, reminded me of a tip i picked up off and american forum about brake squeel and freeing your rotor buttons. Use a 10mm hex socket in the button and check they spin freely , the discs like to " Float " around, either use brake cleaner or a tiny drop of oil but be real careful not to get any on the discs or it will comtaminate your pads, dont wd40 , you wont control the blast .
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/DSCF0105.jpg)
Forgive my ignorance but should that simply turn in its own axis or are you undoing that and retightening it up?
Alan
Quote from: BigAlan on July 09, 2012, 05:22:08 PM
Forgive my ignorance but should that simply turn in its own axis or are you undoing that and retightening it up?
Alan
it just spins , its not a threaded bolt, sometimes they get gummed up
A little brake cleaner as you turn the bobbin will help.
It's these getting packed with brake dust preventing the discs from floating then overheating that causes the disc warp issue.
Top tip Viper
you know what, in 20 years of owning kawasakis and many from new ive never had a set of warped discs, worn a few out . I routinely check these buttons and clean them out, not saying this is the prevention at all, but it must help as winston just pointed out, never thought of that.
Quote from: viper on July 09, 2012, 04:30:02 PM
cant you tell ive been off today with all these posts :rolleyes: , been productive tho and now have finished my post tour clean and maintenance of the gtr, reminded me of a tip i picked up off and american forum about brake squeel and freeing your rotor buttons. Use a 10mm hex socket in the button and check they spin freely , the discs like to " Float " around, either use brake cleaner or a tiny drop of oil but be real careful not to get any on the discs or it will comtaminate your pads, dont wd40 , you wont control the blast .
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g133/neill1200/DSCF0105.jpg)
Thanks for that tip. Will check mine this weekend.
nice one Viper I would advise against any oil in or around braking surfaces though :no:
Cleaned my disks and pads again today after my whoopsie, removed the pads and copper slipped the rear and the pins, both front and back, is no problem at all.
Checked my bobbins again, all rotate easily.
Brakes are excellent.
Alan
I'm sure the inside of my 'bobbins' are perfectly round so how does the 10mm hex rotate them to give them a clean :ohplease:
Quote from: Rossendale Rider on August 02, 2012, 05:45:38 PM
I'm sure the inside of my 'bobbins' are perfectly round so how does the 10mm hex rotate them to give them a clean :ohplease:
I was about to ask the same question.
Quote from: dokterdave on August 02, 2012, 06:51:28 PM
I was about to ask the same question.
c'mon guys , show some apptitude, the hex is a damn near sliding fit and a slight bit of down pressure grips em enough to turn, just like gripping a jam jar lid, surface contact and pressure
Quote from: viper on August 02, 2012, 07:40:35 PM
c'mon guys , show some apptitude, the hex is a damn near sliding fit and a slight bit of down pressure grips em enough to turn, just like gripping a jam jar lid, surface contact and pressure
:agree: better than hammering in a large screwdriver blade eh :mfr_lol:
.
- ha ! Was wondering how to turn the smooth as a baby's bottom bobbins there ..
.
For the last few weeks i have been turning the bobbins on the front brake disks, i have to say it makes a hell of a difference, so last week i squirted a (small squirt) of PTFE lubricat around the bobbin then rotated it, be careful not to get any on the actual disk, last night rotated them again and no crunching sound, smooth as smooth can be.
No vibrations, no disk pulse, just pure stopping power.
Alan
Think you may have something there Alan. I can almost see some people cringing at the thought of anything slightly lubricating near the discs but after Viper kindly pointed out the physics side of how to actually rotate the bobbins last week, I had a go and afterwards thought there was an improvement in how my brakes felt. After all, they are called floating discs so it makes sense.
I thought the brake squeal was to announce one's arrival at the traffic lights... Mine has been squealing for ages.........
:mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: !!!!!!!!!
I haven't noticed it for ages, so maybe its now stopped on mine :huh:
Viper, I tried doing today what you suggested with the 10mm hex socket. All the button things seem rock solid to me, couldn't move any of them.
If I douse them in brake cleaner does it matter if that gets onto the discs or pads, does brake cleaner just evaporate?
Keep it off the rear of pads as it will wash off the coppa-slip and you'll get squeal!
Quote from: Lonewolf on August 22, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Viper, I tried doing today what you suggested with the 10mm hex socket. All the button things seem rock solid to me, couldn't move any of them.
If I douse them in brake cleaner does it matter if that gets onto the discs or pads, does brake cleaner just evaporate?
You can do three at a time each side if you rotate the wheel correct, then any brake cleaner you use will run down and not all over the calliper. As I said before, a small squirt of ptfe spray on each bobbin keeps them rotating, when done it will be heaps better, and copper slip the retaining pins and clip in the calliper.
Sorted.
Alan
Quote from: Lonewolf on August 22, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Viper, I tried doing today what you suggested with the 10mm hex socket. All the button things seem rock solid to me, couldn't move any of them.
If I douse them in brake cleaner does it matter if that gets onto the discs or pads, does brake cleaner just evaporate?
Find yourself a short fat bolt that will fit through the bobbin.
Oh and a nut.
I have one just for that job. Do the nut and bolt up through the bobbin.
If your brake cleaner has a straw, tap one end flat and push it between the fixed inner and the brake disc, rotate and spray.
Quote from: Lonewolf on August 22, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Viper, I tried doing today what you suggested with the 10mm hex socket. All the button things seem rock solid to me, couldn't move any of them.
If I douse them in brake cleaner does it matter if that gets onto the discs or pads, does brake cleaner just evaporate?
if they are rock solid then you defo need to get them free and spinning, I honestly believe this is a major contribution to disc warping.
The brake cleaner is perfectly safe to blast all over your discs and pads, it will evaporate off. be warned it makes one hell of a mess all over you nice garage floor or key block drive.
set em free and check every few months .
Many thanks for all the advice. I'll set about the task tomorrow and let you know how I get on. :clap:
Agree with Viper,
You can use brake cleaner ( I do ). It does evaporate and will not cause any hassles.
@Alan,
Do you use the PTFE DRY POWDER lubricant ??
Deon
Quote from: Deon on August 23, 2012, 06:09:21 AM
Agree with Viper,
You can use brake cleaner ( I do ). It does evaporate and will not cause any hassles.
@Alan,
Do you use the PTFE DRY POWDER lubricant ??
Deon
Deon
I use Servisol Super 200 PTFE Lubricant (we have it at work so its handy). Only a small squirt mind.
Alan
Thanks Alan,
We get the PTFE lubricant down here but it is the dry powder lubricant. Do not know if it is the same as what you are using. I will do some more research, thank you.
Deon
I've managed to get them all loose. Now what, just squirt some lubricant in the crack? :mfr_lol:
Steve, I'm not particularly mechanically savvy but I recently removed my pads and gave my calipers, pins, discs, bobbins and pads a good clean with break cleaner and an old toothbrush. This evaporates off really quickly and I then lubed the back of the pads and pins with copper grease and put them all back together. Although the bike had done only 3.5k miles before, this has made a great difference. No squeal and I could even managed to stop if the lights changed to red!!!
Quote from: Lonewolf on August 23, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
I've managed to get them all loose. Now what, just squirt some lubricant in the crack? :mfr_lol:
Thats what i do, then rotate them aorund again, prob once a month.
Alan
Steve, if you do use a lube use it very sparingly as it could contaminate the pads/discs or stop brakes completely. I would cotton bud a slight amount to inner part of each bobbin whilst rotating it
I cleaned the 14 bobbins last week on the front wheel. I used the "bolt, 2 ally washers and then nut" to grip the bobbin and get it rotating. Thing is theres no way my bobbins will "spin" - and I'm not sure they are meant to. They are there to create an "expansion gap" when the discs heat up. Vipers right - they will surely influence disc warp if seized solid but to "spin" is maybe a little too loose - I could be wrong. The R1 had Galfers discs and they were an "interference fit" from new. One thing - I would never use any lubricant on the bobbins. Centrifugal force will throw it out onto the discs. Ive taken some pics of my method and the crud that came out when I used wynns brake cleaner - I'll add here later. Cheers.
Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near any part of my brakes/discs with any type of lubricant :no:
Brake /Clutch cleaner is an extremely flammable irritant and should be used in a well ventilated environment :yes:
What you mean in a garage with a fag on and the bar heater on full ? :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
Yep, that's the one
BOOM :mfr_lol:
Your front discs are made up of two basic parts, the outer shiny rotor and the inner hub piece. The two are designed to be independant of each other in terms of sideways movement. Non Spining buttons that join the two parts together indicate that the outer rotor may have fused its self to the inner hub due to corrosion or just packed with grit.
Floating discs design such as these, as compared to solid discs ( cars ) are a superior design and allow for warped wheels, unbalanced tyres ect. The floating effect absorbs extra forces that could otherwise contribute to dics warping
Ive made this video to show that well maintained buttons spin fairly easily, the knack is to apply some down pressure on the wrench to gain purchase
http://youtu.be/8nnDSE87Blg
Viper I'd like to see the video but it says "Video unavailable"
This is an interesting topic particularly as some owners have experienced front brake problems
its live now
Thank you Viper.... interesting, I'll check mine tomorrow :smiley:
Viper. Great video for clarifying the force required to turn the bobbins. This is the same force as I needed with the bolts nut and washers. When folks said "spinning" I thought they moved a lot easier than that. I can sleep easier now. My Galfers were the same also. Ta.
Viper, that was very helpful indeed. Thank you. Now that I spent some time on mine yesterday mine also spin like that however I still need some lubricant for them.
Instead of lubricant, I gave mine a generous dose of brake cleaner. Turned them till the "crunchiness" went away, wiped dry. They are now as good as new again. Think once a month chore will do no harm.
Deon