Hi Guys,
I know we have a few advanced riders amongst the GTR group so my question is as follows:
I have been riding now for a long time and done many thousand miles but ive never done any advanced courses so which or the two, RoSPA or IAM would be the best to go with? Is one better than the other? Does one get better discount on insurance quotes? and which one will teach me the best way to improve my riding skills
Thank you, your comments will be very much appreciated
Thanks Mark
neither do a California Superbike School course...... that should start some debate, mind you RoSPA V IAM ... oooh thats a bit like asking a Man City player if United are any cop..... this should be fun! ;D
I have passed IAM and found it very good, it also gets me a good discount on my insurance.
I am planning to have a go at ROSPA this year, and according to the Police, its the better more respected advanced ticket to have.
I started with a Police Bike Safe course, and they said I was good enough for IAM, I did a machine cotrol day, four observed runs, and then my test.
So good luck with what ever you choose to do, I think you will enjoy yourself. It made me a far better rider, not only safer, but quicker as well.
As for California Superbike School, a mate of mine has done this and he is much quicker, but no safer!
Mark, if I may add my opinion on this it is that ROSPA is recognised as being the highest civilian driving qualification a person can obtain. In about October 2011 approximately, I decided that after riding for the last thirty years I wanted to get involved in some professional training. Therefore I was encouraged even through private local bike instructors who did not stand to gain financially from my decisions not to go with their training classes but to go for ROSPA instead.
I joined my local ROSPA group, £20 per year membership, I was appointed a local trainer and so far I have had four sessions with the trainer at a cost of about £5 per session to replace their fuel, there are no additional fees. I am ready for my assessment now and that is in the pipeline. My riding ability even in this very short time scale of being mentored has come on leaps and bounds.
I would have no hesitation in recommending ROSPA to anyone, I have thoroughly enjoyed it and made a good friend through my trainer. The advantage of ROSPA though over IAM is that with ROSPA should you wish to do so you can re-test every three years. IAM as I understand it is classed as a skill for life, you pass, that's it!
Hi - good question :)
I went the IAM route a couple of years ago when I realised as a 'back to biking biker' I was now in a completely different world to when I rode as a teenager. I have no experience of ROSPA but have been thinking about it lately. The IAM training did make a huge differnece to my riding and the 'method' of training is good, or, it was for me. However there was some 'issues' with different messages being issued by the trainers (observers), at the time I put it down to some of the obervers being 'weekend warrier' type riders, not day-in/day out riders - like myself.
I have 'picked up' that there are a few 'job' riers on here, be intrerested to hear their view....
"IAM as I understand it is classed as a skill for life, you pass, that's it! "
Very true - but you can do a 'special assessment' which is kinda like a re-test,a nd you can do this whenever you want, but there is a cost involved. I think i will join ROSPA this year, so maybe will ahve a more informed opinion later.
What is clear and is indisputable is that whether ROSPA or IAM 'advanced' training that focuses on safety IS well worth doing.
Oh, a 'small' consideration for me was slighlty cheaper insurance, and once I passed, I was able to use my bike for business.
First off - Ant training is good training. No-one ever stops learning.
RoSPA or IAM?
Both groups use the same base - RoadCraft - The Police Motorcycle Riders Handbook.
As said. RoSPA provides a retest every 3 years and is a Graded Test, Bronze, Silver and Gold.
IAM is a one off test, but they are moving toward a retest system and a grading type system.
IAM is 'glossier' looks slick and has a national image, RoSPA is made of smaller groups RoADAR's (RoSPA Advanced Drivers and Riders) who are under the umbrella of the worlds biggest safety organisation - RoSPA.
IAM are specific for roads, cars, bikes etc. RoSPA as an organisation cover everything from electrics to building site safety - RoADARs are a small part of their business and all groups are run independantly.
I am a member of both and I test cars and bikes for RoSPA. Most members of both organisations in our area are members of both.
Usually find that IAM (which better known)members look for another challenge and join RoSPA.
Do one then the other!
IAM are in with Adelaide insurance and their insurance is always unbeatable.
I don't know about Race Schools for road improvement. Great way top learn the physics or riding and exploring your bike or your own limits, but how well this transfers to road skills I would be cynical about.
As I said though - any training is good training.
I do find the comment about BikeSafe rider saying someone was 'good enough' for IAM. BikeSafe is designed to give people a taste and help them Bridge the Gap between DSA test passers and Advanced Riders
I also went the IAM route, probably because it was the best publicised. I will now be looking at the ROSPA as well. I passed my bike test in 1974 on a Honda CD175 and have had a fair variety of bikes since. I passed my car test in 1975 in a Morris Marina and driven/owned too many cars to list, allsorts from Lotus Esprit to 850 Minis, Ford Streetka belonging to my wife being probably the most fun and most enjoyable. Passed my Hackney Carriage (The black cab knowledge) licence in 1984. Recent years averaging 30,000 ish miles a year bike and car. So I reckon I was an OK driver/rider. I took the IAM test 3 years ago and can honestly say my riding and my driving improved significantly, particularly my mental attitude. Everyone has their own opinions on what is best, but I say that any kind of recognised training can only be for the good. Do something, do anything but listen and learn and practice. Now where's my soapbox gone? :)
Hi All.
Hmmm. I've done RoSPA (gold) but not IAM, and as people have said most of the mentors, observers I've met are usually both IAM and RoSPA, and any additional training is excellent. (rather than track days, have a look at Motogymkhana - ok pitch over)
However on a negative side "if there is one" is too much politics, and if these "custodians of safety" would concentrate on attitude and safety rather than which group is doing what, and which one to promote, it might make for a better experience for new members.
Anyway, sorry to hijack, rant over!
Neil
I haven't completed either ROSPA or IAM and no, I didn't get my driving licence during the war years ;D
They are obviously worth looking in to
http://www.rospa.com/
http://www.iam.org.uk/
On a different but related subject I had to complete my HGV drivers medical this week....I passed with flying colours....at the end of which the Quack relieved me of £85.00.....it was at that moment that I felt a bit sickly ;D
I too have done both IAM and RoSPA and also went on to train as observer / tutor in each group.
As said earlier they both teach using Roadcraft and both will improve your riding. RoSPA requires that you have to re-test every 3 years to remain a member and this is a good incentive to maintain your riding skills.
Also, as stated earlier, the IAM / Adelaide insurance is hard to beat.
P
IAM one stop all done. But I did have problem where life savers were rammed down my neck to the extreme. When did test I had Somerset examiner who stoped me half way through test & said if I looked I over my shoulder once more I would fail. I went on to pass. All groups & Devon group who did my couple training rides with Taylor it to how the examiner wants it. So huge gulfs in what's expected. I did some with ROSPA years ago but cost seemed never ending.
I don't understand this obsession to do both. It seems to be all a about look at me I got the badges & not about what it's really about...being a safer better rider. In my opinion if you constantly need retraining then you got a problem. Don't get me wrong any advanced training is good. Get yer self copy of police riders (pan experts ) handbook. That's the bible as far as I am concerned.
I don't display any badges on my screen.
This is my opinion & my opinion only.
I'm a member of both and should really be putting something back into the system by doing some observing / training with the IAM this year. You can learn a lot by being in a training enviroment :)
one can have much training and guidance as to the saftey aspects of riding a motorcycle, but that dosen't always means it transfers to the ability to ride a motorcycle.
Now i talking about the actual skill here . One of the worst riders I know is very well qualified at RoSPA and IAM but holy mother of god he scares the shit outta me if i'm behind him, his riding technique is horrendous... there are a great many skills he has never mastered and few motorcylists seem to have got the hang of.
These skills are usualy taught on the race track or Motorcross track but transfer very well to road use, such as trail braking through the corner ( front and/or back brake), pick up drills, controling rear wheel slides, correct use of counter steering ect ect.
I'm not for a moment saying that RoSPA or IAM is rubbish, but there are other aspects to riding a motorcycle than just road position and observation, after all how many people actually go out for a ride, with a particular goal of improving their riding technique.
Open your mind, go on a track day, take a weekend on a motorcrosser, you'll be suprised how much you'll learn! ;D
Mogster - I really do think you miss the point of 'advanced' riding.
If you Observe properly you can plan the ride and there is no need to recover a bad situation because the planning stage eliminated the mistake happening in the first place. Trailing brakes through corners may gain a nano-second and make you feel like Casey Stoner, but at the next set of traffic lights/junction you lose it - actually no, advanced riders will gain by approaching with a plan and probably time it right not to stop thus gaining 10ths of a second through unnecessary gear changes if that is so important.
As I said before, track/off-road will hone skills, reactions and fine tune, but advanced riding will compliment anything like that.
In the same vain, Ziderman, you should never stop learning. There may be some 'badge collectors' but the majority of riders simply want to improve their skills then stay on top of their game. I have so many qualifications I would probably be a prime badge collector, but everytime I ride out I have an open mind, I apply what I have learned ride to the system and enjoy it. I usually learn something and if someone else rides/drives like a twat then I don 't get wound up about it - It's their funeral.
I used to ride like I stole it and got sick of feeling ill and stressed after a suicide ride with the lads.
A re-check/test every couple (three) years keeps you alert and going out with other like minded riders and offering one another critique (open mind and attitude) can only improve your own riding and safety.
All said - each to their own - the question was RoSPA or IAM. The decision to take some extra tuition and be open minded to different ways of riding has been made. Which one? Bit like Bible or Koran, Weight Watchers or Slimming World - all the same thing just a slightly different path and being aware or trying more than one can't hurt - it can only give you a more rounded view (except Weight Watcher/Slimming World - that should be less rounded after giving them a go!)
I've often considered some form of advanced training through a recognised establishment, as I believe that it really does improve riding and subsequent driving skills, and I would justify that statement by confirming that since I took and passed my HGV a few years ago my driving has most definitely improved enormously, it really has to, as controlling a multi wheel heavy vehicle carries great responsibility.
Now you might say that there is no comparison between and 'advanced' riding course and passing ones HGV, but let me tell you that the principles applied are much the same ~ planning, consideration, discipline, and a safety related attitude towards others at all times.
BTW I've ridden out with Winston and he's plenty quick enough on the road and demonstrates his riding skills in a way that encourages confidence
And there's no need to buy me a pint Chris !
I'll be looking into a course in the coming months.......just as soon as it bloody well warms up
I feel embarassed now Roger!
I'll settle for a cuppa!
Quote from: Winston Smith on January 29, 2012, 10:52:05 PM
I feel embarassed now Roger!
I'll settle for a cuppa!
;D ;D
I must get around to do some of this advanced training stuff. I keep talking about it, but never get around to it. Hmm, this weekend just opened up, I wonder if I can search out my local group and find out if they are meeting!
Someone once described the difference between them (and this may have just been his local groups) to me. He said that IAM were geared slightly more towards making good progress, whereas RoSPA more toward defensive riding. I don't think he meant massively leaning each way, but more of a subtle difference in approach. As such, my preference is to find a local RoSPA group, but annoyingly the IAM group is closer to me!
I also fancy some off roading. I've heard many people talk about it being a great way to improve your bike handling skills, which I know could do with improvement. Various options open from the manufacturers, but the BMW stuff in South Wales sounds particularly attractive for a number of reasons.
Plus... would love to do a track day, but have visions of falling off and being run over by someone equally unskilled, or being the one doing the running over. :o Hmm.
Quote from: mark on January 28, 2012, 06:45:50 PM
Hi Guys,
I know we have a few advanced riders amongst the GTR group so my question is as follows:
I have been riding now for a long time and done many thousand miles but ive never done any advanced courses so which or the two, RoSPA or IAM would be the best to go with? Is one better than the other? Does one get better discount on insurance quotes? and which one will teach me the best way to improve my riding skills
Thank you, your comments will be very much appreciated
Thanks Mark
Well thank you all for your comments, after talking to the nice man at my local RoSPA group ive decided to go with them so my training starts 21st February. Thanks again for your replies
mark, thats good news. I was apprehensive about doing it but very pleased now that I took the plunge. You'll be surprised at how much you will pick up and how much your skills can be improved on.
Quote from: cpettifer on January 30, 2012, 02:00:24 PM
I must get around to do some of this advanced training stuff. I keep talking about it, but never get around to it. Hmm, this weekend just opened up, I wonder if I can search out my local group and find out if they are meeting!
Same as me. I've been procrastinating on this for ages. Even LW has beat me to it :'(
Quote from: cpettifer on January 30, 2012, 02:00:24 PM
Plus... would love to do a track day, but have visions of falling off and being run over by someone equally unskilled, or being the one doing the running over. :o Hmm.
No, beginners group tends to be fairly easy going and as long as you ride to your limits you should be fine. I love track days.
I sent an e-mail to my local(ish) RoSPA group at lunch time. :D
well its all happening now innit ;)
I better get my lardy butt in gear and do something about it
Question is which one to go for...well I spose that'll be the nearest or maybe the one with the most badges ;D
Me too. Procrastination is the thief of time, but I'll sort that one out tomorrow. Let us know how you get on Mark
Again, this topic has come up before and Winston has it .... ANY training is good ... but it all comes down to how you get on with your instructor / assessor ... too many life savers and it's a fail, but Joe Bloggs up the road might insist on them all the time .... advice for what it's worth ? Do as much as you can afford in both time and money, and take with you all the good bits that you like and bin the bits you don't like ... I like to think my driving / riding is an amalgamation of 2 or 3 blokes I have worked with or was tutored by in my early years and have moulded all that into "Nigel Cooper.com" and I now pass that on to others when I train / instruct. They seem to like it and in turn do well at Driving School when they go on their courses. :)
Spot on Rusty.
What the training does is gives you a toolbox. Choose the right ones for the particular bit of the job!
I've got my application form to join the Gloucester RoSPA group as an associate member... just need to fill it in now and post off a cheque for £15. Then I get assigned a trainer, who I arrange training with. I pay £10 to cover his costs whenever we go out.
Looking forward to it already.
I guess this means I've got to fill the form out!
Good for you old fruit ... send the money off and enjoy ... you will always learn "stuff" ... wether it's about the bike, or your own perceptions, or your comfort zone or anything else to do with riding ... it's a continuous learning curve and there is no one out there who knows it all .. sadly there are those who think they do but they usually end up in the basement ... that's where the mortuaries are .... :(
In all honesty its a win, win situation. The trainer I have appointed would you believe it, is the brother of my old traffic Sgt, sheer coincidence. You have to hit it off and be on the same wave length which we are, I enjoy the training sessions and dont see them as a chore or an un-necessary evil as some might. There's no pressure, yeah, I've made mistakes while we've been out but you discuss it and have another go. Would recommend it to anyone who was considering it. ;D
I know there's loads for me to learn. I get stuck in a motorway rut with my commute to work being 95%ish motorway. So going on other roads I make all sorts of dodgy decisions and manoeuvres. :o
Have filled out the form, just need to find a cheque book. <- do they exist still?!
Quote from: cpettifer on January 31, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
I get stuck in a motorway rut with my commute to work being 95%ish motorway.
Another benefit of the advanced training is that it opens up a new game on the motorway. It is called 'Spot the idiot' and anyone can play. In all seriousness, the training will mean that you spot car-driver based muppetry before it happens - so rather than being forced to brake hard or swerve across a lane, you just predict it, smile inwardly, and avoid using your vocabulary of swear words. Lovely.
Martin.
As Martin has said above, it's like everything is happening in slow motion. Thats how I like to describe it anyway. Slow motion because you can see that that car is going to drift into your lane, you can see that your going to meet that wagon on the roundabout at your current speed, you can see that that pedestrian is going to step out into your path.....and the beauty is because you are seeing, planning, & predicting you have all the time in the world to re-plan and deal with each situation before it becomes a problem. There will be no frustration, no anger, just a pleasant ride. ;D
I have also made a positive move regarding training...but according to RoSPA there's no training available in the N.W until next year (maybe), so I'm waiting for some contact from a representative in Liverpool, although that's too far to travel to and from for training... :no:
We will see what happens when I hear from them.
I try to do a couple of days training every year and I passed my IAM test in 2008. I didn't manage to do any training last year so, prompted by this thread, I've just signed up with RospaSmart.
I confess I'm a little nervous as pretty much all of my previous training has been with trainers who have been recommended to me or I've used before and that has generally worked well. Going with an 'unknown' is not my general MO although I think the best couple of days training I ever had was with North Wales Police which I booked based on the reputation of the organisation.
I once had a day with someone I booked based on the scribblings of the company's founder in a bike mag. and ended up with his local representative. I did get something out of it but despite me telling him that I was there for him to help me kick bad habits I'd picked up over the year and generally improve my riding he was very focussed on 'making progress' as we rode on his local patch. He wanted me to sit on the back of cars as they went into corners, far closer than I was comfortable with, and whack the throttle open if the road was clear after the bend to get past. As with nearly all of my riding I had Lyn on the back and I want to ride in as smooth and safe a way as I can. Sitting on top of the vehicle in front and yanking the throttle open thus making the journey uncomfortable for her just so I can get past someone I can probably get past more smoothly in a minute or so seems a pointless exercise to me and I did eventually get him to tune into the fact that I wasn't going to ride like that. I'm also pretty convinced that 'more progress' comes once smooth riding, awareness and position are mastered. I had a wry smile to myself as he went backwards in my mirrors when we encountered a road I knew and he didn't. I'm not a fast rider by any stretch of the imagination but I was very familiar with that road, something he acknowledged when we next stopped.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes. If it's not a good experience I'll blame you lot!
Kevin
Interesting comments Kevin. When I first joined my local IAM group, I was a bit 'concerned' that the focus 'seemed' to be progress over safety. NOTE - seemed to be and other riders (associates, at the time, did NOT think this from some of there observers).
However, although I have not been to many recent club nights I saw soem posts on the forum about a recent club night that was a talk on 'What the examiners expect'. The posters made a point of noting that safety 'seemed' to have become more of a focus.
i dont consider myself /slow/good/bad - just about average I guess, i enjoy riding (with a group) for that banter when you break, I always now ride within my limits and if I get blasted past by others I let em go. And wish em well.
Oh yes there does seem to be (or, maybe was) a bit of a 'badge of honour' culture for those that have had 'offs' - maybe its common in the bikers world?? But boy oh boy I do NOT want to join that club!! i ride pretty much every day, and maintain that commuting is COMPLETELY differnt to Sunday only riding, which is again completely different to track day riding.
I make mistakes like we all do, but what the training has given me is a (hopefully honest) critique of myself. I will now come out of a manouever or hazard and think, "sheeet, glad I wasn't being oberved then, cos the line was wrong, the overtake could have been better, or I was faffing around with my feet at those lights'!! (which whilst not dangerous (the last one) sure as hell didn't look smooooth!!!
A point well made Kevin
You always have the option of saying "no more" if you don't like the training methods, whilst you are a pupil you are also the customer.
I remember taking my test (along time ago) and being "instructed" by this goon who kept on shouting at pupils and generally be-littling them :nono: :asshole:. ...To a lesser degree a simular situation arose when I did some HGV training ...mmmmm maybe its me :shocked:
When we stopped for a brew I had a word in his ear....amazingly things improved almost immediately :yes:
QuoteIn the same vain, Ziderman, you should never stop learning.
That's life mate..you never stop learning..each time you go out you seem to learn something. Been riding bikes since 13 when had a Husqvarna scrambler. Your never too old to learn. I am 50 now & never been with out a Bike.
Like all qualifications , there are a lot of people out there who have more qualifications than you can shake a stick at , but dont make um good at it. That's down to experience.....
Well I had my last RoSPA 'lesson' this morning in the bitter cold that is Yorkshire. I have a pre test assessment coming up shortly with one of the senior trainers and then apparantly I'll have the actual test within the next few weeks weather permitting. Took in some of Saddleworth Moor, Rishworth, etc. The trainer had just bought himself one of the new GoPro's and tested it out during the ride. Some good footage, anyway I stole a still from the video to show how dedicated I am. :smiley: Boy was it damn cold. :censored:
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/Rospa1.jpg)
What's the oven gloves for.....
:cool:
Not pretty but I believe they are effective.
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 02, 2012, 08:05:46 AM
Not pretty but I believe they are effective.
'Fraid mine arn't :sad:
But... i am a southern softie.... :wink:
Chilly! What temp was it?
-5 on my commute this morning, down the M5. Brrr.
Quote from: cpettifer on February 02, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
Chilly! What temp was it?
-5 on my commute this morning, down the M5. Brrr.
All I can tell you is that it was cold! Mines an older GTR it doesn't have a temperature gauge on it.
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 01, 2012, 11:57:59 PM
Well I had my last RoSPA 'lesson' this morning in the bitter cold that is Yorkshire. I have a pre test assessment coming up shortly with one of the senior trainers and then apparantly I'll have the actual test within the next few weeks weather permitting. Took in some of Saddleworth Moor, Rishworth, etc. The trainer had just bought himself one of the new GoPro's and tested it out during the ride. Some good footage, anyway I stole a still from the video to show how dedicated I am. :smiley: Boy was it damn cold. :censored:
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/Jaffa_Cake101/Fingers/Rospa1.jpg)
Used to live in the first village you come to( Greenfield ) as you drop down from Saddleworth moor, and it will have been like the Baltic up there in this cold snap that we are stuck in, different story in summer though, simply stunning. Any way you are my hero Mr Wolf top marks for turning out in that weather.
Geoff, I was pleased when we got back to Tesco's at Brighouse pouring hot chocolate down my neck. :grin:
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 01, 2012, 11:57:59 PM
Well I had my last RoSPA 'lesson' this morning in the bitter cold that is Yorkshire. I have a pre test assessment coming up shortly with one of the senior trainers and then apparantly I'll have the actual test within the next few weeks weather permitting. Took in some of Saddleworth Moor, Rishworth, etc. The trainer had just bought himself one of the new GoPro's and tested it out during the ride. Some good footage, anyway I stole a still from the video to show how dedicated I am. :smiley: Boy was it damn cold. :censored:
The senior trainer wouldn't be seeing much of your riding while he's in front!
:rolleyes:
That does look VERY cold Mr Wolf ..... well done on getting out there :clap:
Quote from: patrick on February 03, 2012, 07:05:26 AM
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 01, 2012, 11:57:59 PM
Well I had my last RoSPA 'lesson' this morning in the bitter cold that is Yorkshire. I have a pre test assessment coming up shortly with one of the senior trainers and then apparantly I'll have the actual test within the next few weeks weather permitting. Took in some of Saddleworth Moor, Rishworth, etc. The trainer had just bought himself one of the new GoPro's and tested it out during the ride. Some good footage, anyway I stole a still from the video to show how dedicated I am. :smiley: Boy was it damn cold. :censored:
The senior trainer wouldn't be seeing much of your riding while he's in front!
:rolleyes:
Patrick, the trainers on the Beemer, I'm the one out front with the high viz.
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 03, 2012, 07:03:30 PM
Patrick, the trainers on the Beemer, I'm the one out front with the high viz.
Doh!! I assumed the photo was from your bike!!
Quote from: patrick on February 04, 2012, 07:54:50 AM
Doh!! I assumed the photo was from your bike!!
:huh: Does your bike look like that? :ohplease:
Well, then I have got some bad news for you - you're not riding a Kawasaki 1400 GTR! :oops:
God this is hard work. The trainer is on the Beemer with the video rolling, I'm out front being filmed, ride completed, trainer lends me memory card with video footage on, I copy it, I produce a screen shot, I post it on here, I confuse everyone into thinking I'm riding a Beemer, IM THE GUY OUT FRONT ON THE GTR!! :mfr_lol:
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 04, 2012, 11:00:54 AM
God this is hard work. The trainer is on the Beemer with the video rolling, I'm out front being filmed, ride completed, trainer lends me memory card with video footage on, I copy it, I produce a screen shot, I post it on here, I confuse everyone into thinking I'm riding a Beemer, IM THE GUY OUT FRONT ON THE GTR!! :mfr_lol:
:yawn: I guess everybody except Patrick realised that straight away. :whistling:
Quote from: patrick on February 04, 2012, 07:54:50 AM
Doh!! I assumed the photo was from your bike!!
Patrick!!! go ta yer room :wacko:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N-4zrk390
:mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol: :mfr_lol:
I contacted a RoSPA trainer last Tuesday with regard to organising some training for myself
As yet I haven't had any response...I reckon I'll wait until a week has elapsed and then make mor vigourous enquiries
The alternative is to go down the IAM route...to be honest I don't really mind which establishment I use as its the training and improved riding skills that count.
I'm sure they'll get in touch with you, bit like the Spanish, everything is manana.
Or in Welsh as some of our posts seem to be recently. :mfr_lol:
Rwy'n siŵr y byddant yn cysylltu â chi, ychydig fel y Sbaeneg, popeth yn mañana.
[bDoes dim brys, yn enwedig tra ein bod yn dioddef y tywydd di-beicio Steve
Promise.....no more welsh ......maybe some Espanola :mfr_lol:][/b]
El español es siempre bueno.
[bA este paso vamos a necesitar una sección separada para los no miembros de habla inglesa
Tal vez no] :no: [/b]
This is getting daft now. :taz:
Quote from: Lonewolf on February 05, 2012, 06:28:11 PM
This is getting daft now. :taz:
:agree: It is really isn't it, you gotta laugh tho' .... :whistling: