Hi all,
Had a quote to carry out the 7.5K service of £350 + VAT for labour plus price of parts. Was quoted this as the dealer stated that the plugs need to be replace and so it's 6 hours labour.
Does that sound a bit steep to you guys?
Cheers
Those plugs don't need to be replaced. Get a quote for without.
As above, absolutely dont need to change the plugs. Oil £30, Air filter £28, oil filter, £7, check and grease brake/clutch levers, check brakes/discs, clean with brake cleaner if required. Check for wear and rubbing on cables give the tyres a kick and the jobs done.
Thanks both for the replies.
I've asked for quote for the service without replacing plugs so this should help loads.
I had a similar issue with my previous CBF1000 where the plugs were iridium but quoted to be changed after 16K. I asked them not to change them when being serviced.
Cheers
Matt
" Hear Hear " Boys ... that IS steep.... :o
£350 is what I have been quoted for the 24k main service
Bolton Kawasaki did my 7500 mile service last month for £120 all inclusive. They told me that the Iridium plugs are good for 75000 miles plus. Concensus of opinion is they do not need replacing at such short intervals. I intend to ask the NGK opinion at the NEC next week and will let you know.
So one dealer quoted £350 and another £120!! :o And both for the same service. Thats disgusting.
It's not the same service. One dealer is quoting for the Kawasaki-recommended service (lots of work) and the other isn't (not so much work). Whether the plugs need replacing or not is moot for the purposes of the comparison; the important thing is it's not a like for like comparison.
FWIW I paid £307 all in for our 7500 mile service including the plug change. I have no idea whether they need changing or not. I suspect not but I have a very cynical view of warranty claims and if I have an engine-related warranty issue some time down the line I don't want to afford Mr. Kawasaki the opportunity of telling me my claim has been rejected because I didn't follow the service schedule.
Kevin
Kevin, fair point. I stand corrected.
I have recently been in a similar position, and felt the same that as the bike is in warranty I am a hostage to fortune. I also get a little peeved that a tourer of the GTRs ability and quality needs servicing every 3500 miles to keep it in warranty.
As Kevin says if you get a real heavy warranty issue, I do not want to have them reject it. But if Kawasaki have the confidence they obviously do in this bike, then why they cannot make it at least a 5000 mile service interval I do not know.
Amen brother!
As I've said before: We have a 2005 FJR which has a service interval of 6k miles. We had a 1200GS, that contains an engine invented at about the time of the Norman Conquest, that also has a 6k mile service interval. Why on earth the GTR needs servicing every 3750 miles is completely beyond me and is a definite irritation.
Someone will be along in a minute to tell us every other service is only a minor one so it's not so bad but when it's within the warranty period it still has to be taken to a dealer for servicing every 3750 miles or so which is inconvenient and has to be paid for; some of our trips are longer than that.
Kevin
I've constantly gone over the 3750 service limit and not had a warranty claim rejected. Then again, none of the claims have been about the engine.
Do it yourself...if you dont know how to , go on a course to do so. I dont care how good the Dealer may be. It's still going to be the spotty apprentice servicing your bike. No decent Mechanic wants to f**k around changing plugs un oil un stuff.
I am going to mention it at the NEC to the Kawasaki people. If enough of us bring it up maybe (Very unlikely I know- but I am the eternal optimist) they may look at making it a 5 or 6k interval. It is silly every 3500k or so, and actually could be off putting to a prospective buyer if they are torn between touring bikes say BMW, Honda and Kawasaki. We all know the Kwaki is a great bike, but servicing and warranty costs can make a difference to a sale.
I know I am wasting my breath, but you never know.
Will you also mention the stupid low fuel warning system please.
As I said once before: I'd love to know who the genius was at Kawasaki who decided that once I was low on fuel the bike would flash ***LOW FUEL*** at me, removing the range, showing me the gear I'm in only if I happen to be looking at it when it flashes on and removing access to any of the other useful information in the top of the display.
Kevin
Don't forget, the screen bracket breaking, tyre pressure sensor battery replacment, Bla Bla Bla.
At this point the Kawasaki staff will adopt a glazed look, because they don't give a fly fig about that sort of thing.
If you have a problem write to Kawasaki customer services, thats what they are for!
If they get enough reports of the same problem they may just do something about it, but the poor chumps at the bike show will just pay you lip service, and forget all about it.
Hi all,
Cheers for all the replies to my original post.
I've decided to take the GTR to a local family run garage (run by father and two sons.) every 7.5K who have quoted me £130 - £150 for the 7500 service items without the plug change. This seems a bit more realistic.
On the strength that all the sales hype about Iridium plugs is that you pay a premium for longer life and better performance I'm going to have the plugs 'checked every' 15K (ie every other service) and changed whenever they look like they need doing.
This would seems to make sence to me and to keep the GTR on the road as much as possible whilst keeping everthing maintained.
By the way, the original Kawasaki dealer who quoted £350+VAT+parts has declined to offer a price for the service without the plug change and has also declined even to do the service without the plug change. Doesn't seem like looking after your customers to me.
Warranty issues - cross that bridge if I ever get to it.
Amazed ! Why would a dealer in these hard times turn away anyone who wants to spend their money ? If you want a service without the plugs then that's exactly what you should get .. no wonder these places are going out of business :(
Quote from: mattye on November 15, 2011, 08:20:07 PM
By the way, the original Kawasaki dealer who quoted £350+VAT+parts has declined to offer a price for the service without the plug change and has also declined even to do the service without the plug change. Doesn't seem like looking after your customers to me.
I have a little sympathy with the dealer here, even though I agree with you mattye and LR that changing the plugs at only 7,500 miles seems excessive to we owners.
The fact is that Kawasaki explicitly state that the plugs need changing at 7,500 miles. The dealer has to respect that statement from Kawasaki, and not encourage you to cut corners that *may* impact on the brand.
Kawasaki, like any manufacturer, knows that whole life costs do factor into our perception of the bikes. They are not specifying a plug change at 7,500 miles purely to line the pockets of their dealer network, they are doing it because their intensive durability testing prior to releasing the bike showed some sort of issue that could arise and that would be a problem later.
Now my beef comes from the fact that every manufacturer sets service intervals based on the most abusive, ham fisted, mechanically unsympathetic possible rider. That is why the 3,750 mile service interval is there (final drive oil, not engine oil) and that is why the plugs need changing at 7,500 miles.
The solution is condition based servicing like most cars seem to have these days. Monitor cold starts, monitor fuel usage, monitor revs used and determine servicing based on that.
Martin.
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 16, 2011, 10:09:22 AM<snip> Now my beef comes from the fact that every manufacturer sets service intervals based on the most abusive, ham fisted, mechanically unsympathetic possible rider. That is why the 3,750 mile service interval is there (final drive oil, not engine oil) <snip>
If that was the only reason BMW, Yamaha and Honda would set similar service intervals. They don't so there must be more to it.
Kevin
here's a thought... the GTR has 2 'ECO' settings, the automatic one and the one ya turn on ya self...now i is wondering does the plug change have anything to do with the 'leaner burning' engine maps?....do it make the plugs run hotter. therefore impacting on the overall life of them.
I would imagine in testing, as most of the GTR's market is not designed around our congested little island, the bike is ran for very long periods with the either eco setting engaged.
Quote from: Kevin on November 16, 2011, 10:41:11 AM
If that was the only reason BMW, Yamaha and Honda would set similar service intervals. They don't so there must be more to it.
Kevin
Each bike has a different level of engineering, potential for abuse, and expected target market.
Taking extremes for illustration purposes, a 1200RT could reasonably be expected to attract a more mature, mechanically sympathetic audience. In addition, it's heavily governed (electronically) old technology engine is well proven in life.
Our GTRs could well be expected to attract riders who prefer a sportsbike style, and use the top end horsepower. Additionally, the varaible valve train and shaft drive are relatively new technology for Kawasaki.
Thus our service intervals are shorter.
Martin.
That still doesn't explain why the plug manufacturer sells iridium plugs specifically to save on maintainance and says that they are good for at least 50000 miles!!!
" A R1200RT would reasonably be expected to attract a more mature, mechanically sympathetic audience " ....... Not in The Met they don"t !!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 16, 2011, 12:29:45 PM<snip> Our GTRs could well be expected to attract riders who prefer a sportsbike style, and use the top end horsepower. Additionally, the varaible valve train and shaft drive are relatively new technology for Kawasaki.
Thus our service intervals are shorter.
Martin.
Who prefer a sports bike style more so than, say a VFR1200 owner? A quick Google suggests the service interval for that is 8000 miles.
Kawasaki have had shaft drive bikes for years.
Kevin
Kevin,
To me, a VFR1200 is an excellent development on proven technology (V4, VTEC, C-ABS etc) sold at a fairly premium price in a market that Honda has a significant presence and loyal customer base in.
Kawasaki has built a bike with some industry wide ground breaking technology (K-Trac), and a fair chunk of technology new to Kawasaki (combined braking, variable valve control etc). It has launched that bike in a relatively new segment to Kawasaki, at a comparable price to the Hondas and BMWs.
They cannot deliver more (notice that this does not necessarily mean better) bike, for the same money, in a smaller potential market without sacrificing something. My feeling is they don't have the budget to do the extensive durability testing that Honda and BMW could do, so they have to play safe with their service intervals to avoid a warranty fed financial disaster (Bimota V-Due).
I would hope that after the bikes have been out there for a while, they will feel confident enough to extend the service intervals.
Personally, I think Kawasaki got the balance right. If they had reduced the new technology, or increased the price to allow better engineering/testing and longer service intervals, they would have struggled more.
Martin.
ooh i think Honda are more than capable of letting the customer do the extensive testing rather than spend there own money.
I know this as i had the misfortune to own a Honda VF1000F... :( :( ...bloody thing spent more time having the Cams and tentioners replaced than it did being ridden.
Quote from: Mogster on November 16, 2011, 05:24:52 PM
ooh i think Honda are more than capable of letting the customer do the extensive testing rather than spend there own money.
I know this as i had the misfortune to own a Honda VF1000F... :( :( ...bloody thing spent more time having the Cams and tentioners replaced than it did being ridden.
A few years ago that though!
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 16, 2011, 10:09:22 AM
I have a little sympathy with the dealer here, even though I agree with you mattye and LR that changing the plugs at only 7,500 miles seems excessive to we owners.
The fact is that Kawasaki explicitly state that the plugs need changing at 7,500 miles. The dealer has to respect that statement from Kawasaki, and not encourage you to cut corners that *may* impact on the brand.
Kawasaki, like any manufacturer, knows that whole life costs do factor into our perception of the bikes. They are not specifying a plug change at 7,500 miles purely to line the pockets of their dealer network, they are doing it because their intensive durability testing prior to releasing the bike showed some sort of issue that could arise and that would be a problem later.
Now my beef comes from the fact that every manufacturer sets service intervals based on the most abusive, ham fisted, mechanically unsympathetic possible rider. That is why the 3,750 mile service interval is there (final drive oil, not engine oil) and that is why the plugs need changing at 7,500 miles.
The solution is condition based servicing like most cars seem to have these days. Monitor cold starts, monitor fuel usage, monitor revs used and determine servicing based on that.
Martin.
There is nothing in the handbook to say that the final drive oil has to be replaced at 3750mls its 7500 same as everything else that has to be changed.
I still think the 3750ml interval is an inspection and the actual service interval is 7500mls. Neither off which has to be done by a Kawasaki dealer to maintain the warranty it just has to be serviced/inspected in accordance with their procedures.
So having the bike serviced by a dealer every 3750mls but not changing the plugs at 7500 does invalidate the engine warranty.
Servicing the bike yourself and changing the plugs at 7500mls keeps the warranty valid
Quote from: fred24 on November 16, 2011, 05:33:13 PMNeither off which has to be done by a Kawasaki dealer to maintain the warranty it just has to be serviced/inspected in accordance with their procedures.
So having the bike serviced by a dealer every 3750mls but not changing the plugs at 7500 does invalidate the engine warranty.
Servicing the bike yourself and changing the plugs at 7500mls keeps the warranty valid
And how do you know this?
The Kawasaki Motorcycle Warranty Terms & Conditions say something different.
But maybe you can enlighten us?
Quote from: fred24 on November 16, 2011, 05:33:13 PMServicing the bike yourself and changing the plugs at 7500mls keeps the warranty valid
While I'm not certain I am not at all sure that is correct. See my post in this thread (http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,979.msg10384.html#msg10384) (penultimate post on page 1).
Martin: Sorry, but I'm not buying it.
Kevin
Quote from: mecki on November 16, 2011, 06:19:55 PM
And how do you know this?
The Kawasaki Motorcycle Warranty Terms & Conditions say something different.
But maybe you can enlighten us?
Was very simple even you could do it. I got the opinion of the only people that matter which is Kawasaki UK.
Who are very clear that DIY servicing does not invalidate the warranty.
If you got that in writing it would be good if you could attach it here as a public service because that opens up the ability to use any competent mechanic and maintain the warranty.
Kevin
I HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION IN THE PAST REGARDING THE WARRANTY ISSUES AND MAIN DEALERS I WAS TOLD FROM A DEALER THAT AS LONG AS GENUINE KAWASAKI PARTS ARE BEING USED AND YOU ARE USING A COMPETENT / QUALIFIED MECHANIC THER ARE NO PROBLEMS,
Quote from: keith on November 17, 2011, 08:14:15 AM
I HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION IN THE PAST REGARDING THE WARRANTY ISSUES AND MAIN DEALERS I WAS TOLD FROM A DEALER THAT AS LONG AS GENUINE KAWASAKI PARTS ARE BEING USED AND YOU ARE USING A COMPETENT / QUALIFIED MECHANIC THER ARE NO PROBLEMS,
No need to shout.
As any lawyer would tell you, 'that's hear-say and no evidence'.
So you talked to a salesman in a Kawasaki shop - big deal.
They are there to sell bikes and most of them get a commission if they sell you one.
They'll tell you anything you want to hear to do that.
And since when is DIY 'using a competent/qualified mechanic'?
Quote from: keith on November 17, 2011, 08:14:15 AM
I HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION IN THE PAST REGARDING THE WARRANTY ISSUES AND MAIN DEALERS I WAS TOLD FROM A DEALER THAT AS LONG AS GENUINE KAWASAKI PARTS ARE BEING USED AND YOU ARE USING A COMPETENT / QUALIFIED MECHANIC THER ARE NO PROBLEMS,
WHICH IS AT ODDS WITH WHAT...oh, sorry...my local Suzuki/Yamaha dealer told me when I asked them if they could also service the GTR.
Kevin
Quote from: fred24 on November 17, 2011, 07:50:17 AM
< snip > Kawasaki UK .... Who are very clear that DIY servicing does not invalidate the warranty.
Personally, and unfortunately, I think there is a big difference between this statement, and the assumption that Kawasaki will warrant a bike that has been DIY serviced.
If something that cost £20 to fix went wrong, chances are Kawasaki may not even bother checking service records.
Take the other extreme, and say the engine ran low on oil, siezed, and spat me off the bike injuring me and writing off the bike in the process. Now talking about £10k worth of bike, £20k worth of compensation etc. I think they will look more closely now, and dispute the warranty claim on the strength that DIY servicing may have contributed. How can I prove I did not underfill the oil?
My only course of action now would be to take Kawasaki to court, which will involve expensive legal teams, independent engineers, proof of my competence in servicing etc. It would cost a lot of money and time to do it.
In reality though, I think the chances of major failure are hugely slim. Speaking personally, I am likely to get my next service (20k) done at the dealer, but DIY from the expensive 24k service onwards. The bike will still have 6 months warranty left at this point.
Martin.
Quote from: Kevin on November 16, 2011, 06:20:39 PM
Martin: Sorry, but I'm not buying it.
No worries, I am not selling anything ;D Genuinely interested to hear why you think the short service intervals are in place however.
Did you get the wings yesterday by the way?
Martin.
This topic has certainly generated some interesting views, which I think is healthy, .... Martin says ( and I don't know how to highlight someone elses' text like you clever IT boys do ! ) but he wrote " chances of major failure are hugely slim " and I think that is spot on. We are talking about modern precision engineering at it's best and especially with an engine, a physical bit of metal working together with other bits and pieces the chance of catastrophic failure is just very slim .... but where electronics and chips and processors are involved then that's a different story !
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 17, 2011, 09:31:06 AM
No worries, I am not selling anything ;D Genuinely interested to hear why you think the short service intervals are in place however.
<g>. You're not supposed to ask questions like that because it's much easier for me to knock someone else's hypotheses than it is to come up with one of my own! The only answer I can suggest is because it's always been that way for big Kawasakis and they obviously don''t consider changing it as something their customers are clamouring for. In my case they are wrong and I'd like to say it's a big factor in my buying decision but I've bought two so it's obviously not that big a factor. I do find it very annoying though (even more annoying than that stupid 'Fuel Low' warning!). It's not the money, it's the inconvenience.
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 17, 2011, 09:31:06 AMDid you get the wings yesterday by the way?
Bugger! Sorry Martin I meant to post a 'Thank you' when I was on here earlier and I completely forgot. Yes they did arrive thanks. I'll fit them over the weekend once I've got the FJR back together.
Kevin
Quote from: Lord Rusty on November 17, 2011, 09:41:06 AM
... and I don't know how to highlight someone elses' text like you clever IT boys do !
That will be that small button at the top right of every post labelled "Quote". Use that instead of reply, and bingo.
Martin.
Just my 2p worth, the last two Triumph Sprint ST's i had i got my mate to service for me, just as the schedule from Triumph said it should be and saved a fortune, i actually wrote in the book what had been done and what had been used, all genuine Triumph parts as well, then the rear suspension mounting snapped in half AND the fuel tank imploded with a vacuum problem.
Got it taken to the Triumph dealer and they had no problem in doing all the warranty work at all, never asked a question at all, but i know the salesman knew i had the sevicing done by another beacuse i told him in a previous conversation.
My GTR has had the 700 mile service, it will go back to the dealer around the 5000 mile mark for another but after that its down to me and my mate (who owns a garage business and knows bikes).
Alan
This is what the OFT has to say about servicing cars (http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2004/85-04).
Would that apply to motobikes also?
Quote from: MJJ_ZX6RR on November 17, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
Personally, and unfortunately, I think there is a big difference between this statement, and the assumption that Kawasaki will warrant a bike that has been DIY serviced.
If something that cost £20 to fix went wrong, chances are Kawasaki may not even bother checking service records.
Take the other extreme, and say the engine ran low on oil, siezed, and spat me off the bike injuring me and writing off the bike in the process. Now talking about £10k worth of bike, £20k worth of compensation etc. I think they will look more closely now, and dispute the warranty claim on the strength that DIY servicing may have contributed. How can I prove I did not underfill the oil?
My only course of action now would be to take Kawasaki to court, which will involve expensive legal teams, independent engineers, proof of my competence in servicing etc. It would cost a lot of money and time to do it.
In reality though, I think the chances of major failure are hugely slim. Speaking personally, I am likely to get my next service (20k) done at the dealer, but DIY from the expensive 24k service onwards. The bike will still have 6 months warranty left at this point.
Martin.
If the engined seized because the oil was low Kawasaki or any other manufacturer would be in within their rights to refuse to repair the bike under warranty as it was not caused by a manufacturing defect unless there was a sudden major oil leak that occured while you where on the bike as every manufacturer states that you have to check oil levels
I agree that unless you have a major warranty claim then who services the bike isn't relevant but if you do have a major warranty claim and Kawasaki claim the failure was due to poor maintenance then they are probably within their rights not to honour the warranty as the problem was caused by you or the dealer who serviced the bike - good luck trying to get the dealer to admit liabilty for a failure that was caused by bad workmanship by their mechanic.
Thanks Martin .... it had to be simple didn't it ? !!! No laughing Mr Wolf ;D ;D
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on November 17, 2011, 12:23:56 PM
This is what the OFT has to say about servicing cars (http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2004/85-04).
Would that apply to motobikes also?
Not necessarily. By the sound of it this is a voluntary agreement of the car manufacturers.
Maybe someone should ask Kawasaki customer service and see what they have to say.
I shall ask them Mr Mecki when I go up to the NEC bike show on Monday .... sorry ... have I mentioned I am going to the bike show ............ ;D ;D
I may be mistaken but hasn't somebody on here already asked Kawasaki about this
A very interesting point has been brought up in a previous reply regarding electronics. If the electronics on your bike went into meltdown would changing the oil by a competent mechanic (main dealer or not) make any difference to a warranty claim?
On the service schedule apart from checking the lights there are no other electrical servicable items.
Just a thought that with the amount of electronics on modern bikes are we more likely to have electronic problems.
I've just bought the 12MY GTR (arrived at the dealer today!) and part of the deal was for the all the services (5?), upto and including the 16K one, for £700! It did come out around £1150 but they gave me a discount for buying all 5 up front and becuase I'll be having a K&N air filter and Iridium plugs, I basically said "I'll give you £700 and you guys use it as you will for all the services, just don't touch the air filter and plugs. Stamp my book and make sure the bike is safe". They will obviously change oil etc but becuase they're not stripping the bike down to get to the plugs etc, they're happy and my pocket is too; especially as I have the 4 years warranty!
They were happy with that. So am I.
Maybe see if your dealers will 'do a deal' on services up front... My dealer? Drayton Croft in Hinckley, Leicestershire.
Quote from: mattye on November 17, 2011, 07:35:31 PM
A very interesting point has been brought up in a previous reply regarding electronics. If the electronics on your bike went into meltdown would changing the oil by a competent mechanic (main dealer or not) make any difference to a warranty claim?
Probably not.
There is always the consumer guarantee that manufacturers have to honour.
So with electronic failure it would be hard to argue that not having the bike serviced could have contributed instead a material fault.
just to say meckie that the information i received about work being carried out by competent mechanics and the use of genuine parts, came from a kawasaki franchise
how much just to change the plugs - I can do everythingelse my self (oil, filters etc)
Off the top of my head you could be looking at two to three hours labour as ridiculous as that sounds at possibly £60 + per hour. In reality your bike will not need the plugs doing for 50k + mileage so I wouldn't worry about it.
Quote from: keith on November 19, 2011, 08:24:41 PM
just to say meckie that the information i received about work being carried out by competent mechanics and the use of genuine parts, came from a kawasaki franchise
So what?
What if Kawasaki UK don't agree with what a salesman in one of their authorized dealerships said?
As I said before, they want to sell you a bike and will tell you whatever you want to hear to do so.
And if your engine blows up and Kawasaki UK refuses to repair it under warranty what do you do then?
Sue your "competent mechanic" or the guy at your Kawasaki franchise?
The Warranty Terms and Conditions state explicitly that if servicing is not carried out by an authorized Kawasaki dealer at the specified intervals the warranty
MAY not apply.
'May not apply' is open to
THEIR discretion not that of a salesman or even the owner of a dealership.
It could mean that if the paint comes off or the ECU packs in it doesn't matter if the bike was serviced or not and by whom but if the engine seizes this can be a totally different story.
Well, your dealer may pay for it if Kawasaki won't, but I seriously doubt that they'll do that for a disloyal customer like you. :o
OTOH the terms and conditions don't say anything about repairs having to be done by an authorized dealer only that genuine or approved parts need to be used.
mecki i am not going to get involved in a mail war with you this info was given to me from the mechanic at a dealers were i got my zzr's serviced,i dont think the warranty issue would apply if you were using a back street mechanic .so just let it rest now i think people have heard your opinion.i am only telling you what i have been told.by a kawasaki mechanic.
Hi all,
been watching ths thread with great interest as i have recently bought 2009 GTR which the seller had just taken out extended warranty. Although 2 1/2 yrs old their is only 4600 miles on it, technically to keep the warranty i need to get the "big" service done as states so many miles or time. I also have (greedy lucky sod) a 2009 ZZR bought from new at Colchester Kawasaki, used for 2 x 4000miles Euro tours (Catalunya GP, Misano WSB, Route Napoleon, B500,etc) I had the 600 mile service done but have done the rest of the servicing myself(such as it is ? Oil +filter change, general check over, as others have said gets me familiar with my bike and I know its done and done properly) As there is no extended warranty to keep to and bikes sell on their condition not their supposed service record as buyers also do not trust that many of the dealers have done the services diligently.
I was in Colchester Kawasaki buying white plastic fairing washers for the ZZR and got chatting to the Boss Ian and mentioned my concerns to him. He sympathised with my dilemma and called Rob the service guy over to see what they could do and at what price.
They have suggested oil,brake fluid, oil filter and general check over. They can do this for about £170+ vat that will preserve my warranty. I thought that a very fair offer and do appreciate Ian's willingness to help out, but I have the dilemma do I continue having servicing done at the dealer which may total £1500 over the life of the warranty, or take the gamble that any repairs that KHI refuse to honour come to less than that amount. I do also accept that some find it inconvenient to take their bikes in for servicing but contrary to that I also know that lots of you also have big fun on the dealers demo bikes while yours is being serviced.
What is the general opinion, pay the dealer or "gamble" on KHI's top of the range understressed engineering masterpiece?
regards Coman
Totaly personal choice and there isnt a right or wrong answer. For some its easier and far more practical to take the bike to a dealer and let them do their stuff and for others its the DIY direction. I personally am more than happy to give things a try and learn about what makes the bike tick.
There's just too many variables involved. This is the kind of stuff the bureaucrats in the EU love. Whittle it down to three options:
1. Kawasaki do the servicing and getting a warranty claim rejected is unlikely (although has known to happen)
2. Get it serviced by an independent with a stamp in he book. Kawasaki may refuse the warranty claim, but I believe there would be legal avenue to pursue a claim e.g. anti-competitive practices, service carried out to manufacturer specification by a competent mechanic etc
3. Do it yourself. This is probably the most contentious and most difficult to deal with. As Martin points out in the extreme example above, proving your servicing had nothing to do with the failure will be hard.
This is the type of issue I'd expect MCN to run with, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's a grey area and you take your chances.
However, if a dealer is willing to do a basic service and stamp the book accordingly, I can't see how Kawasaki would know you are doing the other servicing yourself. I don't believe it's held on their system.
I wrote to Consumer Direct last week to try to get the 'official' word on this but I didn't get a conclusive reply unfortunately.
Quote from: Consumer DirectWith reference to your enquiry, we assume the note you refer to would be at this link: OFT Note (http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2004/85-04%20%20%20)
Whilst the term 'motorcycle' is not used it is likely that given the similarities between cars and motorcycles, the guidance will apply to motor cycles. I must point out though I cannot confirm this 100% because it is not specifically written in legislation and if the manufacturer disagreed you would need to consider court action where a judge would decide.
Please note: Whilst Consumer Direct endeavour to give our best legal and practical advice, in the end it is only the courts that can decide what your rights are and if the company/trader won?t give you what you feel you are entitled to, the only way to enforce your rights would be through the courts (although this is rarely necessary).
Until there has been such a court case or there is written guidance from Kawasaki UK I think I'll stick to authorised dealers for my servicing. I might get around to writing to Kawasaki myself but I'm too busy at the moment.
Kevin
Just to flog a dead horse a little more to make sure it is dead.
The maintenance section of the owners handbooks lists all the checks that are to be carried out on the bike and at what mileage.
None of the checks that are to be done at 3750mls have a "K" against them so that's an official document from Kawasaki that is supplied with the bike that clearly states that the checks carried out at the 3750 service do not have to carried out by an approved Kawaski dealer.
Every check to be done at 3750mls has the word "Inspect" in the description which implies that the 3750mls service is actually an inspection.
So if you have the bike serviced every 7500mls by the dealer and inspect the bike at 3750mls using an independant dealer or by doing it yourself you are not violating the terms of the warranty as laid out in the documentation that is supplied with the bike.
You could easily take a few hi-res pics of the clocks and various parts of the bike to have proof that you inspected the bike at 3750mls to protect yourself.
I'm not looking to run the bike on the cheap but to use 3/4 days leave to have a bike like the GTR serviced in the first year of ownership is to much. Can understand a highly tuned bike like the ZX10 needing to be serviced more frequently but not the GTR.
Quote from: fred24 on November 22, 2011, 07:31:41 PM
Just to flog a dead horse a little more to make sure it is dead.
The maintenance section of the owners handbooks lists all the checks that are to be carried out on the bike and at what mileage.
None of the checks that are to be done at 3750mls have a "K" against them so that's an official document from Kawasaki that is supplied with the bike that clearly states that the checks carried out at the 3750 service do not have to carried out by an approved Kawaski dealer.
Every check to be done at 3750mls has the word "Inspect" in the description which implies that the 3750mls service is actually an inspection.
So if you have the bike serviced every 7500mls by the dealer and inspect the bike at 3750mls using an independant dealer or by doing it yourself you are not violating the terms of the warranty as laid out in the documentation that is supplied with the bike.
You could easily take a few hi-res pics of the clocks and various parts of the bike to have proof that you inspected the bike at 3750mls to protect yourself.
I'm not looking to run the bike on the cheap but to use 3/4 days leave to have a bike like the GTR serviced in the first year of ownership is to much. Can understand a highly tuned bike like the ZX10 needing to be serviced more frequently but not the GTR.
Well said Fred!!!!!!! but I fear the horse is still twitching. ;)
You pays your money and takes your choice. It's alright arguing about what might and might not happen in the event of a warranty claim, but you will never find out the real outcome until something goes wrong. Each event will be judged on the individual circumstance causing the problem concerned.
However the following points are true.
Loyalty breeds loyalty, and if you take your bike to the Kawasaki dealership for servicing and repairs, he will almost definately "look after you" when things go wrong, but won't fight too hard in your case if he only sees you for warranty work and try to screw him for big discounts at every visit...human nature.....
Doing the work yourself, whether competent or not transfers much of any risk to yourself.
I had a customer who bought a brand new SAAB 9000 Turbo in the late eighties. Never had it serviced except for the first free service at 600 miles. Only spent money on it when he had to, ie pads wearing out or screenwash bottle empty. After almost 1,000,000 miles later the engine self destructed and he paid for a new one without a single moan, reckoning that he had saved more by not having the car serviced at the 6,000 recommended intervals than the cost of a new engine plus fitting even with depreciation of the car. Obviously there was no pride of ownership, the car was a tool to him for doing a job.
To continue the plug debate.. I went to the NEC and asked the NGK guy about our question. He said the official line would be to follow the bike manufacturer's service guide or instructions. However he would not expect to change the plugs before 50,000 at least on a road bike. He would challenge anyone to notice any deterioration of performance on the road, but it will definately take place in the form of performance, fuel consumption as the electrode will wear, but hardly noticeable.
Amazing the number of people on the NGK stand standing at a display of spark plugs on the wall.....fascinating but sad.
Quote from: ChrisB on November 23, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
Loyalty breeds loyalty, and if you take your bike to the Kawasaki dealership for servicing and repairs, he will almost definately "look after you" when things go wrong, but won't fight too hard in your case if he only sees you for warranty work and try to screw him for big discounts at every visit...human nature.....
Agree totally. My dealer has pushed through two warranty claims with Kawasaki. Having a rapport with your dealer always helps
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on November 23, 2011, 10:08:05 PM
Agree totally. My dealer has pushed through two warranty claims with Kawasaki. Having a rapport with your dealer always helps
Not if the dealer in question is Laguna Motorcycles. When I had some corrosion issues on our first GTR they couldn't have been less helpful. Their response was pretty much along the lines of "Oh they all do that and Kawasaki aren't interested". Other things coupled with that meant I lost interest in them as a dealer and now go somewhere else for my servicing.
Kevin
Quote from: Kwikasfuki on November 23, 2011, 10:08:05 PM
Agree totally. My dealer has pushed through two warranty claims with Kawasaki. Having a rapport with your dealer always helps
Did Kawasaki initially refuse to do the repairs under warranty until the dealer fought your corner.
Quote from: fred24 on November 24, 2011, 12:50:45 PM
Did Kawasaki initially refuse to do the repairs under warranty until the dealer fought your corner.
Yes, on the windscreen bracket (said it was down to wear and tear due to the mileage on bike) and the warped brake discs (again, same reason).
The brake disc I may have accepted but not the windscreen bracket. I recall the mechanic telling Kawasaki over the phone that it was a shit design. The dealer was fantastic about it all. Basically said, leave it with me, it'd be sorted. And it was.
I think i'll give this a prob back into life ;D ;D ;D
I have just rang Kawasaki and they say as long as the independent dealer is using genuine parts then there is NO PROBLEMS with the standard kawasaki warranty or the extended warrany. and they were happy to confirm this in an email, which i will send later.
and so this means that i can get a 7,500 mile service and of course on the invoice it will clearly show that a set of plugs were ahem 'fitted' ::)
Quote from: Kevin on November 24, 2011, 07:49:02 AM
Not if the dealer in question is Laguna Motorcycles. When I had some corrosion issues on our first GTR they couldn't have been less helpful. Their response was pretty much along the lines of "Oh they all do that and Kawasaki aren't interested". Other things coupled with that meant I lost interest in them as a dealer and now go somewhere else for my servicing.
Kevin
Laguna Motorcycles, say no more! They tried to charge me £196 for the 3500 service, I asked Bournemouth Kawasaki how much and they said under £100. I could ride down and back and even with the cost of fuel and some grub still be better off!That is LAGUNA MOTORCYCLES Maidstone Kent. AVOID!
I paid only about 60 quid because according to the guys at M&S Motorcycles in Newcastle it's only an inspection and not necessary to change the oil if the bike is less than a year old.
Quote from: Barry7 on November 25, 2011, 01:51:29 PM
<Snip> Laguna Motorcycles, say no more! They tried to charge me £196 for the 3500 service, I asked Bournemouth Kawasaki how much and they said under £100. I could ride down and back and even with the cost of fuel and some grub still be better off!
As I'm sure I've whinged about here before, that was pretty much my experience with Laguna in Ashford as well unfortunately. High hourly rate coupled with more hours per equivalent service that other people were paying for made for a very expensive service schedule. The final straw for me was the £200 they quoted for the 3750 mile service for our second GTR against <£100 by the other local dealer (Dave Fox in Ramsgate) who now does all of our GTR servicing. Strangely, Laguna's clothing department offers quite keen prices, presumably because they have more competition with HG just round the corner in Maidstone.
Laguna is our local Triumph dealer which is one of the reasons I'm not seriously looking at the Explorer (the other is tank size).
Kevin
mecki - strange that - I asked Mand S newcastle how much for the 600 mile check and bloke in the showroom reckoned about £160 !!! - ( that was the showroom mind you - not the workshop up the road !)
Hi Guys
I do my own servicing and yes I do change the diff oil evry servic (it only takes 5 mins and costs pennys).I will not be changing the plugs till the 24 k service as all this talk of replacment at 7.5k is a money making proccess for Kawasaki.A GTR has no more or less technology than say a new petrol Range Rover and guess what they have iridium plugs fitted and the service interval is 80k.And yes the kawsaki revs higher but a Range Rover has a supercharged engine(some).
Just out of interest has any body ever had a plug problem?.
Quote from: seniorminnion on December 19, 2011, 10:59:30 PM
mecki - strange that - I asked Mand S newcastle how much for the 600 mile check and bloke in the showroom reckoned about £160 !!! - ( that was the showroom mind you - not the workshop up the road !)
I was talking about the second service/inspection @ 3750 miles.
so how much for the 600 mile 'service' ?
From memory it was about £40 ... oils and filter and time .. not much but I have to say Honda always gave me a free " 1st Service " but the K dealer is hugely better in so many ways so i didn't mind.